Perhaps if one knows they are in a cave, it is enough?
On Feb 8, 3:49 pm, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > Of which chosen one we might apply this to the philosophy or the woman, > but of the ensuing catastrophe it seems certain that most would choose > to struggle with their relinquished liberation and responsibility rather > than face the struggle with the self and megalomania. Humility might be > enough to keep our footing and prevent falling into a self prison where > we will thrash around with figments and projections of the real. Perhaps > we are each chosen to step out of the cave, as it seems something only > one may do for oneself. > > Any way simply does not seem 'right' > > On 2/8/2011 6:30 AM, ornamentalmind wrote: > > > > > > > > > No...actually, for some, attaching to a personal epistemology and > > convincing themselves that it is reality works too. > > > On Feb 8, 2:07 am, gabbydott<[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ah! I see the problem! Elevating the personal philosophy to a transpersonal > >> one, would mean entering the realm of religion, would mean no choice but > >> being the chosen one, which either suits my personal philosophy or it > >> doesn't. Is that all that keeps us going? > > >> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > >>> It is astonishing to delve into Daoism again, so elegantly it describes my > >>> long struggle with identity. How could I forget? The fundamental precepts > >>> of > >>> my nature that have stood in stark contrast, this is far too convenient > >>> and > >>> significant.. In my view I see all as nature and the transcendent a growth > >>> or exploration beyond the horizon that today I can only feel the pull and > >>> draw of the innermost. I would certainly enjoy hearing more from someone > >>> who > >>> has chosen this path as their personal philosophy! > >>> On 2/6/2011 5:51 PM, �zen wrote: > >>>> On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below. > >>>>> On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote: > >>>>> This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in > >>>>>> another group would actually be a good introduction here =] > >>>>>> *** > >>>>>> "There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a > >>>>>> miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." > >>>>>> - Einstein > >>>>>> In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something > >>>>>> inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution > >>>>>> of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life > >>>>>> is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of > >>>>>> expression. > >>>>>> However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies > >>>>>> that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural > >>>>>> behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These > >>>>>> most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of > >>>>>> chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever > >>>>>> further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise > >>>>>> to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no > >>>>>> matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss, > >>>>>> all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships > >>>>>> between energies. > >>>>>> To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit > >>>>>> in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build > >>>>>> up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the > >>>>>> same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could > >>>>>> simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form. > >>>>>> "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and > >>>>>> awakens in man." > >>>>>> - Ibn al 'Arabi > >>>>>> I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins > >>>>>> 'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine. > >>>>>> And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same > >>>>>> sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same > >>>>>> interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock > >>>>>> are the same that have have formed different relationships that have > >>>>>> formed our biology. > >>>>>> I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine > >>>>>> entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that > >>>>>> doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is > >>>>>> one eternal universal soul that we are apart of. > >>>>>> You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the > >>>>>> need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much, > >>>>>> science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense, > >>>>>> science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on > >>>>>> morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we > >>>>>> are > >>>>>> as best it can. > >>>>>> That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics > >>>>>> because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true. > >>>>>> What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and > >>>>>> improve ourselves? > >>>>> Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to > >>>>> cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science > >>>>> IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving > >>>>> paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools > >>>>> to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is > >>>>> complementary to nature. > >>>>> Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature. > >>>> When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into > >>>>> consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At > >>>>> times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and > >>>>> naturalist, I have no expression for it.. > >>>> The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of > >>>> transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or > >>>> merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising > >>>> above it. > >>>> I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I > >>>>>> consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )... > >>>>>> I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they > >>>>>> believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we > >>>>>> don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover > >>>>>> them > >>>>>> I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both. > >>>>>> Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The > >>>>>> middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation! > >>>>> As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially > >>>>> moderation." > >>>>> It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to > >>>>>> come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and > >>>>>> our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our > >>>>>> potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to > >>>>>> be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free > >>>>>> ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in > >>>>>> productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us. > >>>>>> Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is > >>>>>> full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic > >>>>>> tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core > >>>>>> philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about > >>>>>> by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful, > >>>>>> apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition. > >>>>>> Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each > >>>>>> moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you. > >>>>>> - That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us > >>>>>> from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any > >>>>>> particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and > >>>>>> patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature. > >>>>>> I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& > >>>>>> Daoism > >>>>>> in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux > >>>>>> for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to > >>>>>> believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about > >>>>>> something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are > >>>>>> right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment! > >>>>> A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very > >>>>> complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such > >>>>> logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or > >>>>> variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the > >>>>> best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources > >>>>> of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a > >>>>> thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad > >>>>> absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a > >>>>> preconceived notion. > >>>> Nicely put... > >>>> Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the > >>>>> predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it > >>>>> unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning > >>>>> on a false sense of necessity and urgency. > >>>>> Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play > >>>> (obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily > >>>> influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to > >>>> believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience > >>>> that this is far from, if only rarely true. > >>>> - People seek acceptance and validation, and if the > > ... > > read more >>
