Not sure I follow. I don't care for religion in any sense. Religion in most forms are fundamentally failed sciences and failed/out moded political systems. They failed because they were inflexible and rigid. Science by definition cannot fail because it is utterly open to progression. That Newton bettered Galileo/Capernicus, and himself was bettered by Einstein, and that Einstein has been bettered by contemporary physicists/mathematicians. This demonstrates how adaptive and progressive science is.
Nor do I see what you mean when you say "entering the realm of religion would mean no choice but being the chosen one" .. ?? To just go with what I do want to say about any saviour/chosen one is that we are the saviours of our own lives. No-one can save me but me. That I must take responsibility for my actions, I must diligently strive to make the best of myself... to forge the most skilfull behaviours in my habits as I can... that is how I can save myself from my own moral decay. As is the same for anyone. To take charge of your own life, and be your own authority. Develop your own morality and philosophy by thinking for yourself and questioning everything - not because you're a skeptic, but becuase you want to understand and to know. Questions are more important than answers. Any certainty about any answers are but meaningless dogmas attempting to condition you, seducing and sedating you into their rigid dogmas and indoctrination. - Even the most convicing answers may in time be seen in an ever more clearer light as paradigms of thought and culture progress. On Feb 8, 10:07 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Ah! I see the problem! Elevating the personal philosophy to a transpersonal > one, would mean entering the realm of religion, would mean no choice but > being the chosen one, which either suits my personal philosophy or it > doesn't. Is that all that keeps us going? > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > It is astonishing to delve into Daoism again, so elegantly it describes my > > long struggle with identity. How could I forget? The fundamental precepts of > > my nature that have stood in stark contrast, this is far too convenient and > > significant.. In my view I see all as nature and the transcendent a growth > > or exploration beyond the horizon that today I can only feel the pull and > > draw of the innermost. I would certainly enjoy hearing more from someone who > > has chosen this path as their personal philosophy! > > > On 2/6/2011 5:51 PM, Ćzen wrote: > > >> On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below. > > >>> On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote: > > >>> This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in > >>>> another group would actually be a good introduction here =] > >>>> *** > >>>> "There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a > >>>> miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." > >>>> - Einstein > >>>> In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something > >>>> inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution > >>>> of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life > >>>> is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of > >>>> expression. > >>>> However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies > >>>> that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural > >>>> behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These > >>>> most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of > >>>> chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever > >>>> further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise > >>>> to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no > >>>> matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss, > >>>> all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships > >>>> between energies. > >>>> To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit > >>>> in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build > >>>> up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the > >>>> same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could > >>>> simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form. > >>>> "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and > >>>> awakens in man." > >>>> - Ibn al 'Arabi > >>>> I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins > >>>> 'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine. > >>>> And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same > >>>> sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same > >>>> interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock > >>>> are the same that have have formed different relationships that have > >>>> formed our biology. > >>>> I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine > >>>> entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that > >>>> doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is > >>>> one eternal universal soul that we are apart of. > >>>> You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the > >>>> need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much, > >>>> science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense, > >>>> science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on > >>>> morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we are > >>>> as best it can. > >>>> That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics > >>>> because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true. > >>>> What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and > >>>> improve ourselves? > > >>> Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to > >>> cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science > >>> IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving > >>> paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools > >>> to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is > >>> complementary to nature. > > >>> Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature. > > >> When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into > >>> consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At > >>> times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and > >>> naturalist, I have no expression for it.. > > >> The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of > >> transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or > >> merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising > >> above it. > > >> I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I > >>>> consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )... > >>>> I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they > >>>> believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we > >>>> don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover > >>>> them > >>>> I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both. > >>>> Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The > >>>> middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation! > > >>> As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially > >>> moderation." > > >>> It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to > >>>> come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and > >>>> our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our > >>>> potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to > >>>> be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free > >>>> ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in > >>>> productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us. > >>>> Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is > >>>> full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic > >>>> tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core > >>>> philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about > >>>> by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful, > >>>> apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition. > >>>> Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each > >>>> moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you. > >>>> - That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us > >>>> from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any > >>>> particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and > >>>> patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature. > >>>> I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& Daoism > >>>> in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux > >>>> for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to > >>>> believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about > >>>> something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are > >>>> right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment! > > >>> A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very > >>> complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such > >>> logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or > >>> variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the > >>> best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources > >>> of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a > >>> thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad > >>> absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a > >>> preconceived notion. > > >> Nicely put... > > >> Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the > > >>> predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it > >>> unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning > >>> on a false sense of necessity and urgency. > > >>> Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play > >> (obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily > >> influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to > >> believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience > >> that this is far from, if only rarely true. > >> - People seek acceptance and validation, and if the dominant culture > >> in society dictates that a particular religion is 'true', then there > >> are immense social pressures on any individual to yield to those > >> pressures and conform. > > >> Truly, it takes a strong individual to stand up against the majority. > > >> Welcome to the group, I am Ash- one who sees boundaries as a challenge, > >>> knows little about much, thinks endlessly, aided by an atrocious memory. > > >>> Thankyou, and I enjoy further discussion =] > > >> Simply put, I understand that I would like to influence people to look > >>>> into these philosophies. I have enjoyed them immensley and feel that > >>>> they have truly taught me alot about how to meditate and observe > >>>> myself, and thereby seeing so much of me in the others I see around > >>>> me. > > >>> I've had similar experiences with those philosophies, somehow my cursed > >>> memory is a puzzle of continual renewal and rediscovery. This life I > >>> have heard of nothing like it, but it is nice to feel others with me and > >>> very warming to feel others may be like > > ... > > read more >>
