Rigsy03, Sorry for the long delay. -25 windchill. Must be a hurricane. I’m in Florida, and the folks are complaining because its been below 70 for so long now. Yes, you’re right. Whole societies are often carried away by greed. In fact, I think the idea of producing equity is mostly just talk. That’s why I try to identify people who really are actively working to end poverty in the world.
On Jan 21, 8:32 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Welcome Nanook! I write with a -25 windchill outside today- how about > you? > > Your thoughts make sense to me except that whole societies can be > carried away by greed and false values. Bubbles are nothing new, > really. This brings up the current ease of communications world-wide > so that we must face reality everyday of poor societies. Barbara Ward > dealt with this in "The Rich Nations and the Poor Nations" way back in > 1962 and though some progress has been made there is still enormous > inequity- much due to nationalistic elitism and political posturing. > The US prefers to deal with similar types of governments which > bolsters its military positions/industries, protects its industrial > secrets, and favors our trade/currency among other matters including > setting standards of social and individual behaviors. We are convinced > we are the top banana and have this right but we might be cautious > about what we wish for- nations/kingdoms are emotional entities. > > I think some of American excess following WWII is explainable due to > emerging from the Depression and the pent up need for housing and > material goods- this in a broad sense as there has always been the top > tier of income and power. Resentment can be just as damaging as greed/ > hoarding to the soul- at least that's what I feel about the matter. > > On Jan 20, 7:43 pm, TheRealNanook <[email protected]> wrote:> Thanks for > the welcome - and the good replies. > > > First a reply about the A3 Society. I started the society and set up > > the website to try to implement social changes based on the principles > > I outline in my books. And for anyone interested in reading them, you > > can read most of the books free at Smashwords. I also copied a lot of > > the text into the subject headings on the A3society.org site. Sure, I > > hope to sell a lot of books some day. But, I’d be much happier if the > > principles I talk about there bring some breakthroughs to society. > > > Responding to Ash’s point, I fully agree with your observation about > > the psycho dimension. This “internal drive” is complex and is built up > > in us over time for many reasons - starvation for example. I was just > > focusing on the social aspect, because I think that was the one that > > causes people the most pain - when others judge us greedy - and what > > the term greed usually refers to. Your psycho point then comes into > > play. Resolving the pain usually requires some kind of psycho > > adjustment. > > > Responding to Lee, I agree that what one person judges as greed may be > > very different from the society around them. But what happens then? I > > think this brings out my point about the social character of greed. If > > the community is tolerant, they let a single viewpoint that differs > > from their own just go about their business. But if the community is > > rigid, the person could end up in a lot of trouble. And that’s what > > paints the history of the concept of greed over time. It is usually > > directly tied to the overall wellbeing of the society. If everyone has > > plenty of food, they could care less about the guy who eats like a > > king. But if everyone is starving, they don’t easily tolerate someone > > who eats like a king, even if he IS the king. > > > And, as I said in my comment, this same situation applies to all of > > the seven deadly sins (pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, > > laziness ). > > > On Jan 18, 6:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Welomce from me too Nanook, > > > > I sorta agree with you here but greed can of course be judged by the > > > individual also, independantly or social mores. That is what one may > > > find greedy may or may not measure up to what ever sociaty one finds > > > themselves in says about greed. > > > > On Jan 18, 6:58 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Welcome Nanook, I certainly hope it's not bad form because I do it all > > > > the time. Maybe I'll have a website or book to hock someday too but > > > > until then you will all have to wait in anticipation (or fear). :) > > > > > I really only have input on a part of the post, that Greed is defined by > > > > what the society finds to be acceptable behavior. To make it sound less > > > > arbitrary and avoid going down the 'culture of greed' road we should say > > > > in judging greed there are psycho and social dimensions. To touch on > > > > both I think we should ask at what cost to values, ethics and principles > > > > will one pursue their desire. For example I might find it reasonable for > > > > someone in Haiti to keep a surplus if they were able, but to desire an > > > > unreasonable excess at the expense of someone else's having enough would > > > > not be right. Would it be greedy to have ten thousand pounds of food > > > > shipped to my house, keeping one thousand for myself and handing out the > > > > rest to local relief depots? I don't think so. Noone can say what > > > > psychological factors are playing out except by what behaviors the > > > > person exhibits, like their charitable nature or compassion for those > > > > around them. Now if someone has that much food shipped in so they can > > > > feel mighty amongst the starving, I say maybe someone would notice how > > > > fat the guy is getting who eats a 10oz steak in front of the picture > > > > window for each meal. They come and take the food, eat him too, and > > > > nobody feels at a loss. > > > > > On 1/17/2011 12:16 PM, TheRealNanook wrote: > > > > > > I’m new to the group. I hope it’s OK to join the discussion near it’s > > > > > starting point. > > > > > > I think the word greed explains a lot of the tragedy that we see in > > > > > society today. We could address that tragedy better if we saw the > > > > > contribution that greed was making to it. > > > > > > My first point is that greed has been known to be a problem for a long > > > > > time. It is often listed as the second of the SEVEN DEADLY SINS. Why > > > > > this is important is because I believe the Seven Deadly Sins can > > > > > explain most of problems in human society due to human psychology. I > > > > > spend a lot of time on this in my books if anyone wants to explore > > > > > this further. > > > > > > Second, I think the discussion got off on the wrong foot. We need to > > > > > read Webster’s definition more carefully. It says, “more of something > > > > > than is NEEDED.” Specifically, this phrasing does not limit greed to > > > > > the environment of a single person. In fact, what makes greed, and all > > > > > the Seven Deadly Sins, rank so highly as human faults is their SOCIAL > > > > > expression in a social context. The first example is a good example to > > > > > explore this. > > > > > > If a person, who lives in an expensive tenement in NYC spends a > > > > > million dollars on a painting, it may not be greed. But if the same > > > > > person happens to live in one of the few surviving houses in Haiti, > > > > > while people are starving to death in the street outside his front > > > > > door, then society would label that greed. If the same millionaire, in > > > > > Haiti, stockpiled just 2 weeks worth of groceries, an amount that no > > > > > one in most of the U.S. would even blink at, while everyone else was > > > > > living hand to mouth, society would label that greed. > > > > > The point is, this directly contradicts the notion stated in the first > > > > > post that, “NOBODY can judge what another person finds important ...” > > > > > The whole concept of greed, and the other SINS, is based on its social > > > > > implications. > > > > > > To make the meaning of greed clear, as used in society, Webster’s > > > > > definition needs a few more words: a selfish and excessive desire for > > > > > more of something than is needed IN THE OPINION OF SOCIETY. And that’s > > > > > the stickler! > > > > > Look how this point comes into play in the last paragraph of the > > > > > post. It says, “if you have REASONABLE plans for every single > > > > > dollar? THAT IS NOT GREED...” The devil is in the word “reasonable”. > > > > > And what society means by reasonable is what SOCIETY accepts as > > > > > reasonable. > > > > > > The reason this is so important right now is how it will play out as > > > > > the mortgage disaster starts to really unwind. Note well, this > > > > > disaster is NOT about houses. It’s about the people thrown into the > > > > > street. To date, the banks have thrown the equivalent of 6 Haiti > > > > > earthquakes of U.S. adults and children into the street. They will > > > > > create the equivalent of another Haiti of homeless people every 3 > > > > > months in 2011! And what is it that they want? PROFITS!: to get back > > > > > to the level of bonuses they got before the crash. > > > > > > For those interested, you can read more at > > > > > http://www.a3society.org/7%20Deadly%20Sins > > > > > > On Dec 12 2010, 4:55 am, BB47<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> The word “greed” is tossed out so often and it always intrigues me > > > > >> just what people mean by it. Just what is “greed?” Some people (no > > > > >> names) toss this word off their fingertips all the time and frankly I > > > > >> HAVE HAD ENOUGH. > > > > > >> Webster defines this word as… > > > > >> : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) > > > > >> than > > > > >> is needed. > > > > > >> Ok, let’s take a more careful look at that definition. Let’s say a > > > > >> very rich person spends a million dollars on a painting that he just > > > > >> loves. He thinks this painting is so remarkable, so beautiful, that > > > > >> he is willing to buy it for a million dollars so he can look at it > > > > >> every day in his house. Me personally? I would never spend a > > > > >> million dollars on a painting, but that is just me. That painting, > > > > >> or > > > > >> ANY painting, is not something I am interested in buying at that > > > > >> price, even if I was filthy rich. But the things that I buy would > > > > >> curl your hair as they might seem so “strange” to YOU, but not to me. > > > > >> Everybody is different, and this is a very important thing to > > > > >> consider. NOBODY can judge what another person finds important, > > > > >> interesting, beautiful, desirable, or worthwhile. (Just look at your > > > > >> hairstyle…smily thingee goes here) > > > > > >> The question is…is that greed? I don’t think so. Is buying anything > > > > >> that one does not “need” greed? Hell no! you better check your > > > > >> inventory of your life if that is the case, you would find that every > > > > >> human on earth is greedy, and therefore the definition is rendered > > > > >> meaningless. The definition clearly states “an EXCESSIVE desire for > > > > >> MORE of SOMETHING” > > > > > >> This says to me that greed is only achieved when you already HAVE > > > > >> “enough” of this particular “thing” and yet you want more anyway. > > > > >> You > > > > >> want more than you can actually “benefit” from because you already > > > > >> have “it” THAT is greed. When you “hoard” something for no > > > > >> reason, > > > > >> and NOT when you simply “want” something that you don’t have. > > > > >> Wanting > > > > >> something IS NOT GREED. Get that through your fricking head. > > > > >> Wanting > > > > >> something that is not “needed” is not greed. Wanting something you > > > > >> already have plenty of is greed. > > > > > >> Which brings us, inevitably, to money. Money can be turned into > > > > >> ANYTHING, so one cannot say that you have a quantity of this > > > > >> particular one “thing” that meets the > > > ... > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -
