Equality is a myth- individuals and nations have different resources and talents. Opportunity based on merit is another subject.//Charity and a generous spirit are positives but governments that abuse these virtues are likely to end up with cheaters, loafers and bloated agencies. One must look at profit and punishment, real vs. fake goods, etc.
Brumal days have given way to a brief thaw. :-) On Feb 13, 7:03 pm, TheRealNanook <[email protected]> wrote: > Rigsy03, > > Sorry for the long delay. -25 windchill. Must be a hurricane. I’m in > Florida, and the folks are complaining because its been below 70 for > so long now. > Yes, you’re right. Whole societies are often carried away by greed. In > fact, I think the idea of producing equity is mostly just talk. That’s > why I try to identify people who really are actively working to end > poverty in the world. > > On Jan 21, 8:32 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Welcome Nanook! I write with a -25 windchill outside today- how about > > you? > > > Your thoughts make sense to me except that whole societies can be > > carried away by greed and false values. Bubbles are nothing new, > > really. This brings up the current ease of communications world-wide > > so that we must face reality everyday of poor societies. Barbara Ward > > dealt with this in "The Rich Nations and the Poor Nations" way back in > > 1962 and though some progress has been made there is still enormous > > inequity- much due to nationalistic elitism and political posturing. > > The US prefers to deal with similar types of governments which > > bolsters its military positions/industries, protects its industrial > > secrets, and favors our trade/currency among other matters including > > setting standards of social and individual behaviors. We are convinced > > we are the top banana and have this right but we might be cautious > > about what we wish for- nations/kingdoms are emotional entities. > > > I think some of American excess following WWII is explainable due to > > emerging from the Depression and the pent up need for housing and > > material goods- this in a broad sense as there has always been the top > > tier of income and power. Resentment can be just as damaging as greed/ > > hoarding to the soul- at least that's what I feel about the matter. > > > On Jan 20, 7:43 pm, TheRealNanook <[email protected]> wrote:> Thanks for > > the welcome - and the good replies. > > > > First a reply about the A3 Society. I started the society and set up > > > the website to try to implement social changes based on the principles > > > I outline in my books. And for anyone interested in reading them, you > > > can read most of the books free at Smashwords. I also copied a lot of > > > the text into the subject headings on the A3society.org site. Sure, I > > > hope to sell a lot of books some day. But, I’d be much happier if the > > > principles I talk about there bring some breakthroughs to society. > > > > Responding to Ash’s point, I fully agree with your observation about > > > the psycho dimension. This “internal drive” is complex and is built up > > > in us over time for many reasons - starvation for example. I was just > > > focusing on the social aspect, because I think that was the one that > > > causes people the most pain - when others judge us greedy - and what > > > the term greed usually refers to. Your psycho point then comes into > > > play. Resolving the pain usually requires some kind of psycho > > > adjustment. > > > > Responding to Lee, I agree that what one person judges as greed may be > > > very different from the society around them. But what happens then? I > > > think this brings out my point about the social character of greed. If > > > the community is tolerant, they let a single viewpoint that differs > > > from their own just go about their business. But if the community is > > > rigid, the person could end up in a lot of trouble. And that’s what > > > paints the history of the concept of greed over time. It is usually > > > directly tied to the overall wellbeing of the society. If everyone has > > > plenty of food, they could care less about the guy who eats like a > > > king. But if everyone is starving, they don’t easily tolerate someone > > > who eats like a king, even if he IS the king. > > > > And, as I said in my comment, this same situation applies to all of > > > the seven deadly sins (pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, > > > laziness ). > > > > On Jan 18, 6:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > Welomce from me too Nanook, > > > > > I sorta agree with you here but greed can of course be judged by the > > > > individual also, independantly or social mores. That is what one may > > > > find greedy may or may not measure up to what ever sociaty one finds > > > > themselves in says about greed. > > > > > On Jan 18, 6:58 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Welcome Nanook, I certainly hope it's not bad form because I do it all > > > > > the time. Maybe I'll have a website or book to hock someday too but > > > > > until then you will all have to wait in anticipation (or fear). :) > > > > > > I really only have input on a part of the post, that Greed is defined > > > > > by > > > > > what the society finds to be acceptable behavior. To make it sound > > > > > less > > > > > arbitrary and avoid going down the 'culture of greed' road we should > > > > > say > > > > > in judging greed there are psycho and social dimensions. To touch on > > > > > both I think we should ask at what cost to values, ethics and > > > > > principles > > > > > will one pursue their desire. For example I might find it reasonable > > > > > for > > > > > someone in Haiti to keep a surplus if they were able, but to desire an > > > > > unreasonable excess at the expense of someone else's having enough > > > > > would > > > > > not be right. Would it be greedy to have ten thousand pounds of food > > > > > shipped to my house, keeping one thousand for myself and handing out > > > > > the > > > > > rest to local relief depots? I don't think so. Noone can say what > > > > > psychological factors are playing out except by what behaviors the > > > > > person exhibits, like their charitable nature or compassion for those > > > > > around them. Now if someone has that much food shipped in so they can > > > > > feel mighty amongst the starving, I say maybe someone would notice how > > > > > fat the guy is getting who eats a 10oz steak in front of the picture > > > > > window for each meal. They come and take the food, eat him too, and > > > > > nobody feels at a loss. > > > > > > On 1/17/2011 12:16 PM, TheRealNanook wrote: > > > > > > > I’m new to the group. I hope it’s OK to join the discussion near > > > > > > it’s > > > > > > starting point. > > > > > > > I think the word greed explains a lot of the tragedy that we see in > > > > > > society today. We could address that tragedy better if we saw the > > > > > > contribution that greed was making to it. > > > > > > > My first point is that greed has been known to be a problem for a > > > > > > long > > > > > > time. It is often listed as the second of the SEVEN DEADLY SINS. Why > > > > > > this is important is because I believe the Seven Deadly Sins can > > > > > > explain most of problems in human society due to human psychology. I > > > > > > spend a lot of time on this in my books if anyone wants to explore > > > > > > this further. > > > > > > > Second, I think the discussion got off on the wrong foot. We need to > > > > > > read Webster’s definition more carefully. It says, “more of > > > > > > something > > > > > > than is NEEDED.” Specifically, this phrasing does not limit greed to > > > > > > the environment of a single person. In fact, what makes greed, and > > > > > > all > > > > > > the Seven Deadly Sins, rank so highly as human faults is their > > > > > > SOCIAL > > > > > > expression in a social context. The first example is a good example > > > > > > to > > > > > > explore this. > > > > > > > If a person, who lives in an expensive tenement in NYC spends a > > > > > > million dollars on a painting, it may not be greed. But if the same > > > > > > person happens to live in one of the few surviving houses in Haiti, > > > > > > while people are starving to death in the street outside his front > > > > > > door, then society would label that greed. If the same millionaire, > > > > > > in > > > > > > Haiti, stockpiled just 2 weeks worth of groceries, an amount that no > > > > > > one in most of the U.S. would even blink at, while everyone else was > > > > > > living hand to mouth, society would label that greed. > > > > > > The point is, this directly contradicts the notion stated in the > > > > > > first > > > > > > post that, “NOBODY can judge what another person finds important > > > > > > ...” > > > > > > The whole concept of greed, and the other SINS, is based on its > > > > > > social > > > > > > implications. > > > > > > > To make the meaning of greed clear, as used in society, Webster’s > > > > > > definition needs a few more words: a selfish and excessive desire > > > > > > for > > > > > > more of something than is needed IN THE OPINION OF SOCIETY. And > > > > > > that’s > > > > > > the stickler! > > > > > > Look how this point comes into play in the last paragraph of the > > > > > > post. It says, “if you have REASONABLE plans for every single > > > > > > dollar? THAT IS NOT GREED...” The devil is in the word > > > > > > “reasonable”. > > > > > > And what society means by reasonable is what SOCIETY accepts as > > > > > > reasonable. > > > > > > > The reason this is so important right now is how it will play out as > > > > > > the mortgage disaster starts to really unwind. Note well, this > > > > > > disaster is NOT about houses. It’s about the people thrown into the > > > > > > street. To date, the banks have thrown the equivalent of 6 Haiti > > > > > > earthquakes of U.S. adults and children into the street. They will > > > > > > create the equivalent of another Haiti of homeless people every 3 > > > > > > months in 2011! And what is it that they want? PROFITS!: to get > > > > > > back > > > > > > to the level of bonuses they got before the crash. > > > > > > > For those interested, you can read more at > > > > > > http://www.a3society.org/7%20Deadly%20Sins > > > > > > > On Dec 12 2010, 4:55 am, BB47<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> The word “greed” is tossed out so often and it always intrigues me > > > > > >> just what people mean by it. Just what is “greed?” Some people (no > > > > > >> names) toss this word off their fingertips all the time and > > > > > >> frankly I > > > > > >> HAVE HAD ENOUGH. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
