Rigsy, again, you point out valid aspects of reality today. And, again I’m but pointing towards what exists at the end of such a ‘fine tuning’ of our judgment. What is that? What would it look like? This is where the Mind’s Eye goes.
And, yes we all can contain opinions such as how the Gulf War should have gone. We can even contain well formed evaluations. However when it comes to the topic now of ambivalence, the point of actual health must include a knowledge of objectivity too don’t you think? Only from such a view would one actually know the function of attorneys! Or, if one is more inclined towards the cynical *and* realistic, one comes up with stuff like this: http://morrisberman.blogspot.com/ Yet, even here we must include the apparent battle between different theologies, ways of knowledge into the mix…something that has been done more and more over the more recent years here at Mind’s Eye… a radical change from its early days of mostly pure dialectics and materialism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xH0lHUs9c&feature=related On Mar 13, 5:23 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Fine-tuning our judgement is part of education and growing up so we > are less liable. It does depend on degree and the situation. I thought > the Gulf War was bad judgement, for instance- I would have sent in > Delta Force. Anyway, there are gulls all over the place, aren't there? > Why do you think there are so many lawyers? > > On Mar 13, 1:30 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ....so one is to conclude that it is normal to have bad judgment? > > > On Mar 12, 4:55 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > > > It is not abnormal to have unrealistic expectation of oneself or of > > > others. It is rather a matter of bad judgment. Abnormal in my opinion has > > > to do with some evidence of pathology. It is a matter of degree. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:22 pm > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Ambivalence > > > > How can one with 'unrealistic expectations' be considered 'normal'? > > > > On Mar 12, 7:41 am, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Ambivalence clinically (from the vantage point of a psychologist) > > > > describes > > > mixed feelings of love and hate directed to oneself and or > > > > > important love objects. These feelings are normal - to disappointments > > > > (often > > > due to frustrated unrealistic expectations) of self to self or > > > > > self and love object. > > > > > Further - because of unconscious repression and or suppression the > > > > 'negative' > > > hateful feelings and fantasies are unrecognized and are > > > > > often expressed in ways that are experienced as under or over > > > > reactions. For > > > example - a woman who has hostile feelings towards her > > > > > husband but has a difficulty in allowing herself to accept them - may > > > > often > > > treat the husband with excessive deference, niceness, and > > > > > subservience. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:59 am > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Ambivalence > > > > > I thought more about this topic. I gave a minor example regarding an > > > > impending visit but ambilvalence can be more serious, I think. And > > > > maybe I have used the wrong term to begin with! We were raised, for > > > > instance, to ignore the incongruities in others and depended on > > > > etiquette to get us through- we didn't often question the disconnect > > > > but that began to change in the '70's with pop psychology and more > > > > openess in relationships plus new terms and tools for labeling > > > > behavior. > > > > > Ambivalence may be a primitive warning sign, for instance, that > > > > persons or events do not "add up", yet it resides initially in the sub > > > > cs./emotions to begin with until it is able to be an intelligent > > > > assessment. > > > > > On Mar 10, 12:25 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > is ambivalence to be looked at in terms...or dissected of thesis, > > > > > antithesis > > > > > and synthesis..only...the anti thesis is as natural as thesis...not > > > > > merely > > > > > an artificial correction.... > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:33 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Yikes! > > > > > > > But Mardi and Gibbs have other ideas on the subject which suggest > > > > > > ambivalence is quite normal. > > > > > > > It depends on the choice/decision. I am quite at ease in making most > > > > > > choices- informed, confident of my judgement and taste, etc. BUT... > > > > > > > There are some areas that do indeed get muddied up sometimes and > > > > > > that > > > > > > would often be relationships and the more intimate, the more > > > > > > complicated. But it could also be another type of decision that has > > > > > > consequences- a major purchase or committment to a career, etc. I am > > > > > > not talking about the Pruefrock debate. > > > > > > > Often there is a conflict between duty and expectation of one's > > > > > > position and desire, feelings, etc. that are hestitant or in > > > > > > opposition. In my case, I have agreed to a two week visit and I > > > > > > really > > > > > > do not feel up to it. (Guilt?) Could it be the long, longer, longest > > > > > > winter in memory? Is it putting away the knickknacks so the toddlers > > > > > > won't break them? Is it that my routine and order will fly to the > > > > > > winds? Or will the advent of spring- for surely it will arrive one > > > > > > of > > > > > > these days- open windows, no boots, change the entire atmosphere? If > > > > > > the past is a guide, it will be fun and lovely and I will grieve > > > > > > when > > > > > > they depart. BUT... > > > > > > > This child and I are very close yet have really gone through some > > > > > > stuff together. I debated and she made reservations. :-) Am I still > > > > > > remembering her as a teenager? > > > > > > > Perhaps ambivalence comes into play when there is a good deal of > > > > > > history/information and we get swarmed. So Mardi and Gibbs make good > > > > > > points- go with your heart and accept the ambivalences. Afterall, it > > > > > > is all all those differences that add spice to relationships, as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > But she can't have that ivory Buddha... :-) > > > > > > > The instance when someone defined ambivalence was crucial and I > > > > > > suppose part of a plan to help me assess facts versus wishes until I > > > > > > finally had the courage to file for divorce. > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 2:44 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > When felt as being problematic as rigsy does, ambivalence by > > > > > > > definition is > > > > > > > ‘pathological’.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalence > > > > > > > > The issue is not having been clarified enough to actually > > > > > > > integrate > > > > > > > apparently differing issues, values, notions etc. So, in this > > > > > > > context, > > > > > > > her feelings of distress point to an actual need for > > > > > > > clarification. > > > > > > > > There is a point where one can actually integrate all aspects of a > > > > > > > situation/self. And, even though Wilber is more of a pop icon > > > > > > > than a > > > > > > > final embodiment of truth, he and his integralism is a good place > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > ‘start’ when it comes to this topic – ambivalence. > > > > > > >http://integrallife.com/http://www.integralworld.net/augustine4.htmlh... > > > > > > > > The topic, as simple as it is, can be made into a vast labyrinth > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > thought. > > > > > > > > Molly on occasion addresses this too and in one of the above links > > > > > > > philosophers are addressed including Plato. > > > > > > > > As far as I’ve found, his “The Fifth” is about as far as one can > > > > > > > go. > > > > > > > > On Mar 9, 8:34 am, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > > Re ambivalence - It is not pathological but absolutely normal. > > > > > > Love/hate exist in every relationship both with the self and the > > > > > > self and > > > > > > the self and others. If only we all were logical in the sense of > > > scientific > > > > > > cause and effect we could always be 'objective." But we human > > > > > > beings are > > > > > > much more complex than simply disembodied intellects. There is also > > > > > > the > > > > > > realm of mixed feelings. When you add linear (scientific causality) > > > > > > logic > > > > > > with the realm of messy feelings you get a hybrid causality I refer > > > > > > to as > > > > > > experiential logic (thinking plus mixed feelings and emotions). > > > > > > Acknowledging this fact validate my wise psychoanalyst's insightful > > > > > > observation: "In between black and white are not shades of gray; > > > > > > rather, > > > > > > there are colors. > > > > > > > > > Gibbs Williams > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2011 8:46 am > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Ambivalence > > > > > > > > > I feel it in my mind and body and it can be very distressing- > > > > > > > > back and > > > > > > > > forth- this way and that- a maybe then no and all over again! > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > The brain/logic could have one arena and the > > > > > > > > sub-conscious/emotions > > > > > > > > have another. > > > > > > > > > Sometimes I just don't decide and let whatever happens, happen- > > > > > > > > i.e. I > > > > > > > > tune out choice. This can be troublesome later if do not like > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > outcome! :-) > > > > > > > > > Someone once told me ambivalence is natural and normal and is a > > > > > > > > way of > > > > > > > > seeing things/relationships realistically. Perhaps that is true. > > > > > > > > > On Mar 9, 6:20 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The first step is 'seeing' (being aware of) it. > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 9, 3:03 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > i so get what you mean...... > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 8, 6:47 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you all/y'all handle this nettle?- Hide quoted > > > > > > > > > > > text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > -- > > > > > \--/ Peace- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -
