Yeah, i think you're right about the "built in" view; it's perhaps what i was alluding to in a parallel thread as "thinking in stereotype" and compensating accordingly.
You're confusing me, rigsy...either you speak Latin or Mandarin fluently, or you think that communication is a superfluous hindrance in matters of love, but are big on phonics; or both? lol. On Jul 25, 2:35 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > I was thinking of Spartan society- ancient Greece. But there are > modern examples with the repercussions, don't you agree? There are > more divisions than ethnic, racial, religious, etc. I think it is > often built in- tribal security. > > Frankly, communication is often clumsy. Would I mind a lover who spoke > Latin or Mandarin? Might make life easier! lol > > On Jul 21, 11:55 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I dont really have a normative view on this very difficult topic; i do > > find it near enough impossible to make a watertight case, morally or > > practically, for either side of the debate. > > > If by "super race" you mean specific genetic endowments that offer > > distinctive functional advantage, dont we have that now? Strip out the > > mind-numbingly silly "ethnic" frame, you have great spectrums of great > > talent everywhere. > > > Engineering a convergence of talent is fanciful, not dangerous; one > > can be "too smart by half", you know :) > > > On Jul 20, 2:27 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It probably is a topic for medical ethicists- the only one I've met > > > was concerned with transplant issues. It is also a topic for > > > philosophers. > > > > Didn't the Spartans try to "engineer" a super race? > > > > What about government interference? > > > > Let's consider what has happened to certain dogs, shall we? > > > > Lordy, Lordy- sometimes it is lovely to have been an old-fashioned > > > girl! > > > > On Jul 19, 4:30 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Abortion is not anything much in history. We are now almost in the > > > > territory of decisions on altering our species and creating something > > > > very different. I'm of the view that humanity is more or less a waste > > > > of time and I'd rather trust decisions to people than anything quite > > > > as mythical as 'humanity'. > > > > > On Jul 19, 2:30 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am aware of works/history of Michael Dorris, yes. My op/gyn quit > > > > > practice over high insurance but think he was dealing with the effects > > > > > upon women of recreation drugs (!) and promiscuity. > > > > > > I agree with your outlooks- except I no longer have a pet and often > > > > > mourn the absense of a lover/friend. I gave up. Am not the cougar type > > > > > and most men my age are falling apart! :-) > > > > > > On Jul 18, 11:25 am, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 18, 12:08 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I read a Time mag article on a concert pianist I admired- he was > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > a large family and his mother considered an abortion but changed > > > > > > > her > > > > > > > mind. That fixed my opinion rather than Church doctrines- which > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > allowed abortions, btw. I read- maybe Wm. Manchetser's slim > > > > > > > volume on > > > > > > > Chuch history, but maybe not- that the Vatican made a deal with > > > > > > > France > > > > > > > so it would repopulate after Napoleon. I am anti-abortion but > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > run the country. > > > > > > > Have you seen messed up teenage moms with fetal alcoholism syndrome > > > > > > babies? It's a very iffy subject. > > > > > > > > Rape was a bonus for military victories, wasn't it? Women were > > > > > > > considered as objects. I don't think castration was considered, > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > it? Even Ike left Berlin females to the fate rapes of the Ruskies. > > > > > > > Actually, rape during war has played a big role in human evolution. > > > > > > Not that I am advocating it or anything. War is garbage. > > > > > > > > Yes- let's send the politicians and brass off to the wars they > > > > > > > invent > > > > > > > along with the general population who pays for them. Imagine the > > > > > > > charge of Hilary's brigade! She can take Weiner along for the > > > > > > > ride- he > > > > > > > can be her press secretary! > > > > > > > > Yes- wars are a great boost to medicine- especially new surgical > > > > > > > techniques and many a millionaire starts as a war profiteer. > > > > > > > True, all too true, Prescott. > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > On Jul 17, 12:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi rigsy and Tony. You bring up a few issues I ponder and > > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > First, it appears that neither of you are against abortion on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > grounds that it is killing, something that I believe it is… and > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > still think it should be legal. Yet you both, perhaps for > > > > > > > > slightly > > > > > > > > different reasons seen to think abortions should be ‘avoided’. > > > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > > cite ‘convenience’ as a reason that is not acceptable. Rigsy > > > > > > > > says that > > > > > > > > giving birth is ‘part of the cycle of life’ as a reason and > > > > > > > > Tony says > > > > > > > > that it is ‘cold. He further implies that to abort, it must be > > > > > > > > ‘understandable’. This is one reason I leave it to the > > > > > > > > mother…since > > > > > > > > what is ‘understandable’ (including the notion of > > > > > > > > ‘convenience’) are > > > > > > > > in the eye of the beholder. > > > > > > > > > Rigsy then shared all sorts of practical justification for her > > > > > > > > moral > > > > > > > > stance. As to the being part of the cycle of life, so is death > > > > > > > > as Tony > > > > > > > > points out! Also, an apparent wish to further the > > > > > > > > overpopulation of > > > > > > > > Earth because we can (medical ‘advances’), historical gender > > > > > > > > preferences and one countries solution to overpopulation (one > > > > > > > > child/ > > > > > > > > couple) not appearing to be perfect in her eyes all seem to be > > > > > > > > incomplete ‘reasons’ or at worst, not valid ones. > > > > > > > > > Tony shares how most life ‘in nature’ just isn’t ‘good’ and > > > > > > > > ends in > > > > > > > > death. To me, if the requirement for living is to have a good > > > > > > > > life, > > > > > > > > the majority of women on Earth should have been put to death > > > > > > > > long ago > > > > > > > > because of the extensive occurrence of rape, slave trade, > > > > > > > > poverty, > > > > > > > > hunger, disease etc. This is *IF* one accepts the premise. I > > > > > > > > won’t > > > > > > > > even address his notion of abortion being ‘cold’. > > > > > > > > > As to his first mention of being against the draft, I too > > > > > > > > shared that > > > > > > > > stance long ago. More recently (the last couple of decades) I > > > > > > > > see the > > > > > > > > necessity for a draft as a way of affecting all socioeconomic > > > > > > > > groups > > > > > > > > thus forcing a wider opinion…hopefully against…of supplying > > > > > > > > cannon > > > > > > > > fodder. With no draft, the elite including lawmakers never have > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > personally face the issue and can avoid doing so more easily. > > > > > > > > > OM > > > > > > > > > On Jul 17, 5:48 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Definitely there are reasons to abort: incest, rape, physical > > > > > > > > > (mental) > > > > > > > > > state of mother, incomplete/damaged fetus. I am against > > > > > > > > > convenience > > > > > > > > > abortions. Weak babies were once left to die- now modern > > > > > > > > > medicine can > > > > > > > > > save them. Boys were preferred to girls. China's one-child > > > > > > > > > policy is > > > > > > > > > back-firing. Well, there are many related topics. I see the > > > > > > > > > bearing > > > > > > > > > and raising of children as part of the cycle of life. > > > > > > > > > > We have less control to combat our fears. Am I eating Monsanto > > > > > > > > > products sprayed with Round-Up? Etc. > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 17, 12:24 am, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rigsy - > > > > > > > > > > > I started wearing my "Stop The Draft" pin from '69 last > > > > > > > > > > fall. We are > > > > > > > > > > all being enslaved on the beach to dessicate, wave by wave > > > > > > > > > > until the > > > > > > > > > > tide recedes. Most of that is justified by unjustifiable > > > > > > > > > > wars fueled > > > > > > > > > > by fear, and it's time we stopped being such scaredy cats. > > > > > > > > > > We didn't > > > > > > > > > > survive by *not* working with wolves to kill mammoths. Now > > > > > > > > > > we are > > > > > > > > > > scared of mice and bugs. Enough of that fear tactic. Let's > > > > > > > > > > stop > > > > > > > > > > fighting, and simply resist. > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to abortion, I have a subtler opinion. I > > > > > > > > > > think they are > > > > > > > > > > to be avoided, but are understandable at times. I can think > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > couple personal examples off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > The sister of a friend of mine is a complete drunk and > > > > > > > > > > addict, thought > > > > > > > > > > she had a miscarriage, but still remains pregnant. There > > > > > > > > > > were probably > > > > > > > > > > fraternal twins. Now she's in jail. I'm sure that baby > > > > > > > > > > would never > > > > > > > > > > have a chance except to be unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > An ex-girlfriend was with this schizophrenic (as far as I > > > > > > > > > > could tell) > > > > > > > > > > and abusive guy, and got pregnant. She had been on drugs > > > > > > > > > > and drunk > > > > > > > > > > too, since she got pregnant (says she's cleaned up now), > > > > > > > > > > and didn't > > > > > > > > > > want to have a child with this boy. She was going to have > > > > > > > > > > an abortion > > > > > > > > > > and (at my suggestion) say she had a miscarriage. Well, she > > > > > > > > > > had a > > > > > > > > > > miscarriage before the appointment. It was the right thing > > > > > > > > > > to do. God > > > > > > > > > > took care of that, so it wouldn't be on her head (also at my > > > > > > > > > > suggestion). > > > > > > > > > > > If a potential person has no chance at happiness, and will > > > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > endure enslavement and abuse (as their mother has), what is > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > right to life worth? > > > > > > > > > > > In nature, most of the young are food, either killed by a > > > > > > > > > > predator, > > > > > > > > > > starvation, suffocation, cold, heat, or some disease. > > > > > > > > > > That's life. It > > > > > > > > > > ends in death. The important thing is that life be good. > > > > > > > > > > > In general, if one is to abort, it should be in the first > > > > > > > > > > trimester. I > > > > > > > > > > have no problem with that rule in general. If the child > > > > > > > > > > makes it to > > > > > > > > > > the third, that's a no-no. In the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
