Aha! You noticed my nibbling satire! :-)
On Aug 1, 5:28 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > Lee...if you don't know, dear old rigsy has gone overboard > here...things are not nearly this rosy in the good 'ol US of A! > > On Aug 1, 1:42 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Come to America! We will give you welfare, food stamps, healthcare, > > housing and a free college education! :-) > > > On Aug 1, 9:33 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hahaha Rigsy are not all words arbitary? I understand that some time > > > ago the word nice meant ignorant, I grew up using the word wicked to > > > mean extramly good. > > > > Yes it is true that the world at large and the societies we find our > > > selves raised in 'colour' our chocies, but still I can choose to not > > > work but as I have said elswhere then I'll have to take on the very > > > real concenquences of such a choice, but that choice I do have. > > > > I'm with you on war, but that just means that you and I agree that > > > current international law re war is pants. To make myself clear I am > > > opposed to all war except that of defence against an invasive force. > > > > On Aug 1, 2:08 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > So the definitions of murder and slavery are arbitrary according to > > > > practice and opinion? How do systems control behavior? Many- by making > > > > one feel they do have choice, when indeed, they do not- or abuse terms > > > > and definition. (A slave to the almighty dollar, etc.) And who decides > > > > which nations have the moral edge in killing other humans? (The more > > > > powerful. The winner.) > > > > > On Aug 1, 6:57 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > Well first off I'll have to say that abortion is not murder, and if we > > > > > agree to use the common definition of murder that is the unlawfull > > > > > killing of a human by another human, then if we count war as lawfull > > > > > that takes care of that. > > > > > > A slave is exactly what the word says it is. I would add though that > > > > > not including ones own children, that you enslave a person if you take > > > > > from them all choice, that is they make no choices at all and live by > > > > > your choices alone, this is the greatests of evils. > > > > > > On Jul 16, 12:29 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does > > > > > > not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and > > > > > > remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are > > > > > > multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a > > > > > > "slave"? > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony. > > > > > > > > I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife > > > > > > > yep > > > > > > > the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing > > > > > > > individuals to cuase unhappiness. > > > > > > > > If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > then that is their choice and they must then take the > > > > > > > consequences of > > > > > > > that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would > > > > > > > personly > > > > > > > make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned > > > > > > > against > > > > > > > me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > that I would. > > > > > > > > I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > high, so I must also disagree with you on that score. > > > > > > > > For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses > > > > > > > life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of > > > > > > > itself > > > > > > > I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil. > > > > > > > > To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my > > > > > > > belife in the golden rule. > > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Tony, > > > > > > > > > > Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are > > > > > > > > > wholey > > > > > > > > > subjective. > > > > > > > > > > Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but > > > > > > > > > sometimes it > > > > > > > > > serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why > > > > > > > > > exaclty > > > > > > > > > is it that the majority agree with this. > > > > > > > > > > In short why is murder evil? > > > > > > > > > Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the > > > > > > > > murderer > > > > > > > > evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause > > > > > > > > unhappiness > > > > > > > > for everyone else, or no one will be happy. > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ben - > > > > > > > > > > > A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time > > > > > > > > > > considering. Here are my thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a > > > > > > > > > > cheetah kills a > > > > > > > > > > gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the > > > > > > > > > > gazelle's. > > > > > > > > > > Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in > > > > > > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > > pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by > > > > > > > > > > association to > > > > > > > > > > include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. > > > > > > > > > > For the > > > > > > > > > > rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the > > > > > > > > > > many poor > > > > > > > > > > it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent > > > > > > > > > > on their > > > > > > > > > > perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then > > > > > > > > > > actions which > > > > > > > > > > encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt > > > > > > > > > > it are bad > > > > > > > > > > or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in > > > > > > > > > > evolution and > > > > > > > > > > would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our > > > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a > > > > > > > > > > universally > > > > > > > > > > good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those > > > > > > > > > > that impede > > > > > > > > > > it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from > > > > > > > > > > stars to > > > > > > > > > > physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as > > > > > > > > > > a universal > > > > > > > > > > good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally > > > > > > > > > > believes in > > > > > > > > > > evolution, so again, even this objective good is > > > > > > > > > > subjectively > > > > > > > > > > estimated by the individual. > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day > > > > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not believe that we can define good and evil without > > > > > > > > > > > entering > > > > > > > > > > > into a philosophical conversation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a > > > > > > > > > > > universal good > > > > > > > > > > > or a universal evil. > > > > > > > > > > > The concept of what is good and what is evil must be > > > > > > > > > > > taught to us as a > > > > > > > > > > > child, because we are not born inherently good or evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of > > > > > > > > > > > a universal > > > > > > > > > > > good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways. > > > > > > > > > > > Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients > > > > > > > > > > > life. Abortion > > > > > > > > > > > has been used to prevent a child from being born when > > > > > > > > > > > childbirth could > > > > > > > > > > > end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but > > > > > > > > > > > not all. The > > > > > > > > > > > extreme case of the word murder means to kill another > > > > > > > > > > > human being > > > > > > > > > > > under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not > > > > > > > > > > > define murder > > > > > > > > > > > without discussing the implications. There are many > > > > > > > > > > > instances where > > > > > > > > > > > murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings > > > > > > > > > > > are unique > > > > > > > > > > > in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly > > > > > > > > > > > associate good and > > > > > > > > > > > bad. These associations are learned from society, our > > > > > > > > > > > elders and > > > > > > > > > > > peers. A child that is born with no contact from these > > > > > > > > > > > influences will > > > > > > > > > > > associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child > > > > > > > > > > > with contact > > > > > > > > > > > from these influences will be able to conceptualize good > > > > > > > > > > > and evil and > > > > > > > > > > > apply it to many different aspects of everyday life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed > > > > > > > > > > > upon. There is > > > > > > > > > > > no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One > > > > > > > > > > > concept can > > > > > > > > > > > impede on another and we must accept those societies that > > > > > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > > > rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to > > > > > > > > > > > evolve these > > > > > > > > > > > rules and change the commandments that were made > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago to fit > > > > > > > > > > > the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, > > > > > > > > > > > however we live in > > > > > > > > > > > a civilized county in which many cases of murder are > > > > > > > > > > > legal because > > > > > > > > > > > they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and > > > > > > > > > > > our society > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
