I do not think so Rigsy the winners do not get to decide.. Each person is accountable for themselves. Personally I think the focus should be on God ( generic) if your focus is son the amity dollar and have become a slave to it then. You might have a problem, especially if viewed from the judaic tradition of false gods. Allan
On 1 aug. 2011, at 15:08, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > So the definitions of murder and slavery are arbitrary according to > practice and opinion? How do systems control behavior? Many- by making > one feel they do have choice, when indeed, they do not- or abuse terms > and definition. (A slave to the almighty dollar, etc.) And who decides > which nations have the moral edge in killing other humans? (The more > powerful. The winner.) > > > > On Aug 1, 6:57 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hey Rigsy, >> >> Well first off I'll have to say that abortion is not murder, and if we >> agree to use the common definition of murder that is the unlawfull >> killing of a human by another human, then if we count war as lawfull >> that takes care of that. >> >> A slave is exactly what the word says it is. I would add though that >> not including ones own children, that you enslave a person if you take >> from them all choice, that is they make no choices at all and live by >> your choices alone, this is the greatests of evils. >> >> On Jul 16, 12:29 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does >>> not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and >>> remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are >>> multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a >>> "slave"? >> >>> On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony. >> >>>> I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how >>>> they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep >>>> the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing >>>> individuals to cuase unhappiness. >> >>>> If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all >>>> then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of >>>> that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not >>>> curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly >>>> make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against >>>> me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice >>>> that I would. >> >>>> I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for >>>> the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that >>>> high, so I must also disagree with you on that score. >> >>>> For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses >>>> life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself >>>> I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from >>>> somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil. >> >>>> To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my >>>> belife in the golden rule. >> >>>> On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> Hey Tony, >> >>>>>> Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are wholey >>>>>> subjective. >> >>>>>> Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but sometimes it >>>>>> serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why exaclty >>>>>> is it that the majority agree with this. >> >>>>>> In short why is murder evil? >> >>>>> Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain and >>>>> discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the murderer >>>>> evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold the >>>>> individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it will >>>>> collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause unhappiness >>>>> for everyone else, or no one will be happy. >> >>>>> Peace, >> >>>>> Tony >> >>>>>> On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi Ben - >> >>>>>>> A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time >>>>>>> considering. Here are my thoughts. >> >>>>>>> One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a cheetah kills a >>>>>>> gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the gazelle's. >>>>>>> Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in personal >>>>>>> pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by association to >>>>>>> include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. For the >>>>>>> rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the many poor >>>>>>> it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent on their >>>>>>> perspective. >> >>>>>>> One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then actions which >>>>>>> encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt it are bad >>>>>>> or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in evolution and >>>>>>> would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our level >>>>>>> rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a universally >>>>>>> good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those that impede >>>>>>> it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from stars to >>>>>>> physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as a universal >>>>>>> good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally believes in >>>>>>> evolution, so again, even this objective good is subjectively >>>>>>> estimated by the individual. >> >>>>>>> Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day >> >>>>>>> Tony >> >>>>>>> On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> I do not believe that we can define good and evil without entering >>>>>>>> into a philosophical conversation. >> >>>>>>>> Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a universal good >>>>>>>> or a universal evil. >>>>>>>> The concept of what is good and what is evil must be taught to us as a >>>>>>>> child, because we are not born inherently good or evil. >> >>>>>>>> To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of a universal >>>>>>>> good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways. >>>>>>>> Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients life. Abortion >>>>>>>> has been used to prevent a child from being born when childbirth could >>>>>>>> end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but not all. The >>>>>>>> extreme case of the word murder means to kill another human being >>>>>>>> under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not define murder >>>>>>>> without discussing the implications. There are many instances where >>>>>>>> murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad. >> >>>>>>>> A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings are unique >>>>>>>> in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly associate good and >>>>>>>> bad. These associations are learned from society, our elders and >>>>>>>> peers. A child that is born with no contact from these influences will >>>>>>>> associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child with contact >>>>>>>> from these influences will be able to conceptualize good and evil and >>>>>>>> apply it to many different aspects of everyday life. >> >>>>>>>> Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed upon. There is >>>>>>>> no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One concept can >>>>>>>> impede on another and we must accept those societies that have a >>>>>>>> rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to evolve these >>>>>>>> rules and change the commandments that were made centuries ago to fit >>>>>>>> the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, however we live in >>>>>>>> a civilized county in which many cases of murder are legal because >>>>>>>> they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and our society >>>>>>>> must continue to define every aspect of what could be good or bad in >>>>>>>> order to teach our children and they to develop their own, more >>>>>>>> complete understanding to be taught to their children. >> >>>>>>>> I challenge those of you who have read this to define an absolute good >>>>>>>> and evil. >> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Ben Kaylor- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text -
