I don't have a problem, Allen. :-) Oh yes- the winners do decide until they lose it- from empires to individuals.
On Aug 1, 9:06 am, Allan Heretic <[email protected]> wrote: > I do not think so Rigsy the winners do not get to decide.. Each person is > accountable for themselves. Personally I think the focus should be on God ( > generic) if your focus is son the amity dollar and have become a slave to it > then. You might have a problem, especially if viewed from the judaic > tradition of false gods. > Allan > > On 1 aug. 2011, at 15:08, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > So the definitions of murder and slavery are arbitrary according to > > practice and opinion? How do systems control behavior? Many- by making > > one feel they do have choice, when indeed, they do not- or abuse terms > > and definition. (A slave to the almighty dollar, etc.) And who decides > > which nations have the moral edge in killing other humans? (The more > > powerful. The winner.) > > > On Aug 1, 6:57 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hey Rigsy, > > >> Well first off I'll have to say that abortion is not murder, and if we > >> agree to use the common definition of murder that is the unlawfull > >> killing of a human by another human, then if we count war as lawfull > >> that takes care of that. > > >> A slave is exactly what the word says it is. I would add though that > >> not including ones own children, that you enslave a person if you take > >> from them all choice, that is they make no choices at all and live by > >> your choices alone, this is the greatests of evils. > > >> On Jul 16, 12:29 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> I have a problem with your opinion about death vs. murder as it does > >>> not cover abortions or warfare which have become antiseptic and > >>> remote. But this leads to a bigger can of worms. Plus there are > >>> multiple ways to stymie free choices.//What is your definition of a > >>> "slave"? > > >>> On Jul 15, 3:49 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony. > > >>>> I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how > >>>> they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep > >>>> the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing > >>>> individuals to cuase unhappiness. > > >>>> If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all > >>>> then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of > >>>> that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not > >>>> curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly > >>>> make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against > >>>> me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice > >>>> that I would. > > >>>> I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for > >>>> the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that > >>>> high, so I must also disagree with you on that score. > > >>>> For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses > >>>> life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself > >>>> I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from > >>>> somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil. > > >>>> To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my > >>>> belife in the golden rule. > > >>>> On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>> On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> Hey Tony, > > >>>>>> Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are wholey > >>>>>> subjective. > > >>>>>> Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but sometimes it > >>>>>> serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why exaclty > >>>>>> is it that the majority agree with this. > > >>>>>> In short why is murder evil? > > >>>>> Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain and > >>>>> discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the murderer > >>>>> evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold the > >>>>> individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it will > >>>>> collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause unhappiness > >>>>> for everyone else, or no one will be happy. > > >>>>> Peace, > > >>>>> Tony > > >>>>>> On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>> Hi Ben - > > >>>>>>> A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time > >>>>>>> considering. Here are my thoughts. > > >>>>>>> One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a cheetah kills a > >>>>>>> gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the gazelle's. > >>>>>>> Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in personal > >>>>>>> pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by association to > >>>>>>> include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. For the > >>>>>>> rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the many poor > >>>>>>> it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent on their > >>>>>>> perspective. > > >>>>>>> One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then actions which > >>>>>>> encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt it are bad > >>>>>>> or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in evolution and > >>>>>>> would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our level > >>>>>>> rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a universally > >>>>>>> good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those that impede > >>>>>>> it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from stars to > >>>>>>> physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as a universal > >>>>>>> good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally believes in > >>>>>>> evolution, so again, even this objective good is subjectively > >>>>>>> estimated by the individual. > > >>>>>>> Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day > > >>>>>>> Tony > > >>>>>>> On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> I do not believe that we can define good and evil without entering > >>>>>>>> into a philosophical conversation. > > >>>>>>>> Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a universal > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>> or a universal evil. > >>>>>>>> The concept of what is good and what is evil must be taught to us as > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> child, because we are not born inherently good or evil. > > >>>>>>>> To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of a universal > >>>>>>>> good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways. > >>>>>>>> Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients life. > >>>>>>>> Abortion > >>>>>>>> has been used to prevent a child from being born when childbirth > >>>>>>>> could > >>>>>>>> end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but not all. The > >>>>>>>> extreme case of the word murder means to kill another human being > >>>>>>>> under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not define > >>>>>>>> murder > >>>>>>>> without discussing the implications. There are many instances where > >>>>>>>> murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad. > > >>>>>>>> A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings are unique > >>>>>>>> in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly associate good and > >>>>>>>> bad. These associations are learned from society, our elders and > >>>>>>>> peers. A child that is born with no contact from these influences > >>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>> associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child with contact > >>>>>>>> from these influences will be able to conceptualize good and evil and > >>>>>>>> apply it to many different aspects of everyday life. > > >>>>>>>> Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed upon. There is > >>>>>>>> no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One concept can > >>>>>>>> impede on another and we must accept those societies that have a > >>>>>>>> rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to evolve these > >>>>>>>> rules and change the commandments that were made centuries ago to fit > >>>>>>>> the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, however we live in > >>>>>>>> a civilized county in which many cases of murder are legal because > >>>>>>>> they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and our society > >>>>>>>> must continue to define every aspect of what could be good or bad in > >>>>>>>> order to teach our children and they to develop their own, more > >>>>>>>> complete understanding to be taught to their children. > > >>>>>>>> I challenge those of you who have read this to define an absolute > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>> and evil. > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Ben Kaylor- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
