" If you think you have free will because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed alternatives or being switched."
Are you still identified with Neo, in Matrix ? What has free will to do with anything concerning Einstein or speed of light ? I find the association demented. How is free will, the exercise of choice, in a toy shop any different from the same in any other situation ? The Wiki says : Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Isn't it what you are speaking of ? On Aug 3, 5:34 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Much wise in what you say RP and indeed, Orn, many believe they have > no dreams at all. I note Polkid is beginning his serial killer trip. > I'm not very keen on these tricky questions we can't answer but can > use to expose naive and unexamined lives. I went on a long walk with > some old colleagues who moved into brain science some years back and > it was noticeable that they are all more convinced free will does not > exist than I. Humankind seems generally pathetic against the vastness > we seem to have some awareness of and nothing is given to us as to > what to do > > I have little interest in pursuing the question of free will - in > normal dialogue of words, concepts, shapes and patterns I see no end > to it and many sides. Humankind does little in any of this as far as > we can guess and has no direction on what to seek to achieve we can > guess. We may know more in the future, but also may not be the > future. We accede to five senses, though 20 may be more accurate and > at least 2 more are known in dolphins than we possess. I can tell a > story of cooling hydrogen molecules and H3+ in the forming of stars > which were our birth that suggest some form of 'shaping knowledge' > even in the inorganic and the tale of the most, that that must be but > which we cannot see and yet I can only describe my own free will in > comparison with uninspiring robots. Some god might unplug us at any > time. > Much of the brain science going on finds that human beings do not make > rational decisions. I suspect they may have been wasting their > electrodes, as most of us are so poor at critical reasoning it > wouldn't make sense for us to use it. We may not be far off a robot > programmed with emotional responses that match or exceed our own. I > believe most people are tranced and cannot think their way out of a > wet paper bag. This is not unusual in pack and herd conditions.This > is a biological trance in my view. > For me there has to be more than the striving of science and I don't > want this to be a religious crock. If you think you have free will > because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS > drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating > Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I > would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed > alternatives or being switched. > The questions come after this 'indecision' as do those of what is > observing and its picture. > > On Aug 2, 10:59 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > i killed a dog.. my zombieness made me do it.... > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:21 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "We have access to a technology that would have looked like sorcery in > > > Descartes's day: the ability to peer inside someone's head and read > > > their thoughts. Unfortunately, that doesn't take us any nearer to > > > knowing whether they are sentient. "Even if you measure brainwaves, > > > you can never know exactly what experience they represent," says > > > psychologist Bruce Hood at the University of Bristol, UK. If > > > anything, brain scanning has undermined Descartes's maxim. You, too, > > > might be a zombie. "I happen to be one myself," says Stanford > > > University philosopher Paul Skokowski. "And so, even if you don't > > > realise it, are you." Skokowski's assertion is based on the belief, > > > particularly common among neuroscientists who study brain scans, that > > > we do not have free will. There is no ghost in the machine; our > > > actions are driven by brain states that lie entirely beyond our > > > control. "I think, therefore I am" might be an illusion. > > > So, it may well be that you live in a computer simulation in which you > > > are the only self-aware creature. I could well be a zombie and so > > > could you. Have an interesting day." (from a recent New Scientist) > > > > We range over debates in free will and what it is to be human. So far > > > we haven't established free will or even that we are not merely > > > avatars in 'something else's game'. > > > > I wonder whether there are advantages in considering ourselves as > > > creatures limited by programming and also capable of it? > > > -- > > EverComing
