neo to his script Allan On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:58 AM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> Which hard wiring are you referring to? Neo to Keanu Reeves or Neo to his > script? > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:04 AM, allan deheretic <[email protected]>wrote: > >> the problem with Neo is he is hard wired into the system and dependent on >> the hard wiring >> Allan >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:05 AM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> How about old Jesus' speed at ascension? Wouldn't he count as >>> unconstrained by agency at that point in time? Without the being Neo burden, >>> I mean? >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> " If you think you have free will >>>> because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS >>>> drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating >>>> Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I >>>> would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed >>>> alternatives or being switched." >>>> >>>> Are you still identified with Neo, in Matrix ? >>>> >>>> What has free will to do with anything concerning Einstein or speed of >>>> light ? >>>> I find the association demented. >>>> >>>> How is free will, the exercise of choice, in a toy shop any different >>>> from the same in any other situation ? >>>> >>>> The Wiki says : Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make >>>> choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Isn't it what you are >>>> speaking of ? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 3, 5:34 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Much wise in what you say RP and indeed, Orn, many believe they have >>>> > no dreams at all. I note Polkid is beginning his serial killer trip. >>>> > I'm not very keen on these tricky questions we can't answer but can >>>> > use to expose naive and unexamined lives. I went on a long walk with >>>> > some old colleagues who moved into brain science some years back and >>>> > it was noticeable that they are all more convinced free will does not >>>> > exist than I. Humankind seems generally pathetic against the vastness >>>> > we seem to have some awareness of and nothing is given to us as to >>>> > what to do >>>> > >>>> > I have little interest in pursuing the question of free will - in >>>> > normal dialogue of words, concepts, shapes and patterns I see no end >>>> > to it and many sides. Humankind does little in any of this as far as >>>> > we can guess and has no direction on what to seek to achieve we can >>>> > guess. We may know more in the future, but also may not be the >>>> > future. We accede to five senses, though 20 may be more accurate and >>>> > at least 2 more are known in dolphins than we possess. I can tell a >>>> > story of cooling hydrogen molecules and H3+ in the forming of stars >>>> > which were our birth that suggest some form of 'shaping knowledge' >>>> > even in the inorganic and the tale of the most, that that must be but >>>> > which we cannot see and yet I can only describe my own free will in >>>> > comparison with uninspiring robots. Some god might unplug us at any >>>> > time. >>>> > Much of the brain science going on finds that human beings do not make >>>> > rational decisions. I suspect they may have been wasting their >>>> > electrodes, as most of us are so poor at critical reasoning it >>>> > wouldn't make sense for us to use it. We may not be far off a robot >>>> > programmed with emotional responses that match or exceed our own. I >>>> > believe most people are tranced and cannot think their way out of a >>>> > wet paper bag. This is not unusual in pack and herd conditions.This >>>> > is a biological trance in my view. >>>> > For me there has to be more than the striving of science and I don't >>>> > want this to be a religious crock. If you think you have free will >>>> > because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS >>>> > drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating >>>> > Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I >>>> > would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed >>>> > alternatives or being switched. >>>> > The questions come after this 'indecision' as do those of what is >>>> > observing and its picture. >>>> > >>>> > On Aug 2, 10:59 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > i killed a dog.. my zombieness made me do it.... >>>> > >>>> > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:21 PM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > > "We have access to a technology that would have looked like >>>> sorcery in >>>> > > > Descartes's day: the ability to peer inside someone's head and >>>> read >>>> > > > their thoughts. Unfortunately, that doesn't take us any nearer to >>>> > > > knowing whether they are sentient. "Even if you measure >>>> brainwaves, >>>> > > > you can never know exactly what experience they represent," says >>>> > > > psychologist Bruce Hood at the University of Bristol, UK. If >>>> > > > anything, brain scanning has undermined Descartes's maxim. You, >>>> too, >>>> > > > might be a zombie. "I happen to be one myself," says Stanford >>>> > > > University philosopher Paul Skokowski. "And so, even if you don't >>>> > > > realise it, are you." Skokowski's assertion is based on the >>>> belief, >>>> > > > particularly common among neuroscientists who study brain scans, >>>> that >>>> > > > we do not have free will. There is no ghost in the machine; our >>>> > > > actions are driven by brain states that lie entirely beyond our >>>> > > > control. "I think, therefore I am" might be an illusion. >>>> > > > So, it may well be that you live in a computer simulation in which >>>> you >>>> > > > are the only self-aware creature. I could well be a zombie and so >>>> > > > could you. Have an interesting day." (from a recent New Scientist) >>>> > >>>> > > > We range over debates in free will and what it is to be human. So >>>> far >>>> > > > we haven't established free will or even that we are not merely >>>> > > > avatars in 'something else's game'. >>>> > >>>> > > > I wonder whether there are advantages in considering ourselves as >>>> > > > creatures limited by programming and also capable of it? >>>> > >>>> > > -- >>>> > > EverComing >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> I_D Allan >> >> If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >> >> > -- ( ) I_D Allan If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
