Which hard wiring are you referring to? Neo to Keanu Reeves or Neo to his script?
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:04 AM, allan deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > the problem with Neo is he is hard wired into the system and dependent on > the hard wiring > Allan > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:05 AM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > >> How about old Jesus' speed at ascension? Wouldn't he count as >> unconstrained by agency at that point in time? Without the being Neo burden, >> I mean? >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> " If you think you have free will >>> because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS >>> drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating >>> Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I >>> would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed >>> alternatives or being switched." >>> >>> Are you still identified with Neo, in Matrix ? >>> >>> What has free will to do with anything concerning Einstein or speed of >>> light ? >>> I find the association demented. >>> >>> How is free will, the exercise of choice, in a toy shop any different >>> from the same in any other situation ? >>> >>> The Wiki says : Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make >>> choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Isn't it what you are >>> speaking of ? >>> >>> >>> On Aug 3, 5:34 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Much wise in what you say RP and indeed, Orn, many believe they have >>> > no dreams at all. I note Polkid is beginning his serial killer trip. >>> > I'm not very keen on these tricky questions we can't answer but can >>> > use to expose naive and unexamined lives. I went on a long walk with >>> > some old colleagues who moved into brain science some years back and >>> > it was noticeable that they are all more convinced free will does not >>> > exist than I. Humankind seems generally pathetic against the vastness >>> > we seem to have some awareness of and nothing is given to us as to >>> > what to do >>> > >>> > I have little interest in pursuing the question of free will - in >>> > normal dialogue of words, concepts, shapes and patterns I see no end >>> > to it and many sides. Humankind does little in any of this as far as >>> > we can guess and has no direction on what to seek to achieve we can >>> > guess. We may know more in the future, but also may not be the >>> > future. We accede to five senses, though 20 may be more accurate and >>> > at least 2 more are known in dolphins than we possess. I can tell a >>> > story of cooling hydrogen molecules and H3+ in the forming of stars >>> > which were our birth that suggest some form of 'shaping knowledge' >>> > even in the inorganic and the tale of the most, that that must be but >>> > which we cannot see and yet I can only describe my own free will in >>> > comparison with uninspiring robots. Some god might unplug us at any >>> > time. >>> > Much of the brain science going on finds that human beings do not make >>> > rational decisions. I suspect they may have been wasting their >>> > electrodes, as most of us are so poor at critical reasoning it >>> > wouldn't make sense for us to use it. We may not be far off a robot >>> > programmed with emotional responses that match or exceed our own. I >>> > believe most people are tranced and cannot think their way out of a >>> > wet paper bag. This is not unusual in pack and herd conditions.This >>> > is a biological trance in my view. >>> > For me there has to be more than the striving of science and I don't >>> > want this to be a religious crock. If you think you have free will >>> > because you can choose between varieties of toy and other ADMASS >>> > drivel then pass on by - free will for me would concern beating >>> > Einstein's speed of light and its constrictions - but even then I >>> > would not know I was free rather than selecting from pre-programmed >>> > alternatives or being switched. >>> > The questions come after this 'indecision' as do those of what is >>> > observing and its picture. >>> > >>> > On Aug 2, 10:59 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > i killed a dog.. my zombieness made me do it.... >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:21 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > "We have access to a technology that would have looked like sorcery >>> in >>> > > > Descartes's day: the ability to peer inside someone's head and read >>> > > > their thoughts. Unfortunately, that doesn't take us any nearer to >>> > > > knowing whether they are sentient. "Even if you measure brainwaves, >>> > > > you can never know exactly what experience they represent," says >>> > > > psychologist Bruce Hood at the University of Bristol, UK. If >>> > > > anything, brain scanning has undermined Descartes's maxim. You, >>> too, >>> > > > might be a zombie. "I happen to be one myself," says Stanford >>> > > > University philosopher Paul Skokowski. "And so, even if you don't >>> > > > realise it, are you." Skokowski's assertion is based on the belief, >>> > > > particularly common among neuroscientists who study brain scans, >>> that >>> > > > we do not have free will. There is no ghost in the machine; our >>> > > > actions are driven by brain states that lie entirely beyond our >>> > > > control. "I think, therefore I am" might be an illusion. >>> > > > So, it may well be that you live in a computer simulation in which >>> you >>> > > > are the only self-aware creature. I could well be a zombie and so >>> > > > could you. Have an interesting day." (from a recent New Scientist) >>> > >>> > > > We range over debates in free will and what it is to be human. So >>> far >>> > > > we haven't established free will or even that we are not merely >>> > > > avatars in 'something else's game'. >>> > >>> > > > I wonder whether there are advantages in considering ourselves as >>> > > > creatures limited by programming and also capable of it? >>> > >>> > > -- >>> > > EverComing >>> >> >> > > > -- > ( > ) > I_D Allan > > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, > >
