How about the an-eye-for-an-eye comparison as the "pure punishment"? A Clockwork Orange comes to mind .. the eye scene.. as far as I remember it didn't work then. Do you know what I mean?
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Lee Douglas <[email protected]>wrote: > Hah are you trying to make a comparision with my stance and the > Arabian crime and punishment system? > > It's a false comparision, I have not called for theives to have their > hands cut off. > > On Aug 18, 1:47 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > Prisons are an industry over here- like nursing homes. Pure punishment > > exisits in Arabia, doesn't it? > > > > Is war/terrorism also a punishment? > > > > Prisons place wrong-doers out of sight, out of mind so commerce and > > entertainment are not interrupted. > > > > Ask the super rich about how much they need, Lee, for they are the > > force that drives society. The rioters were clear- they were showing > > the rich that they also had a right to luxury goods. They are > > surrounded with images and public figures that flaunt possessions and > > wealth so you have to understand why they want a piece of the action/ > > pie Plus a nation's wars/colonizations are a form of greed, aren't > > they? > > > > On Aug 18, 7:28 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Naaaa prisons in this country are still oppeating under the Victorian > > > principle of rehabilitation. I think the majority of us would rather > > > see them setup as pure punishment for crimes commited, I am one of > > > these. > > > > > I for one do not feel smugness, but I do think wrong doing should be > > > punished. I mean we punish our children, why not then punish our > > > adults? > > > > > Yes debt. But the thing with this debt is it has been with us for a > > > looong time now, why the sudden rush to pay it back? Given the global > > > fiscal situation I would rather see some loving feelings going on by > > > those who we owe. Take down the intrest rate, give us longer or > > > perhaps similar to the drive a while back for Africa, scrap the dept, > > > yeah! > > > > > Greed, man it is the ruining of this world. How much does one person > > > need? > > > > > On Aug 18, 12:59 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > What are prisons but holding pens so society feels smug about its > > > > culture? > > > > > > There are probably enough hospitals and schools- what's missing is > > > > methods, cost controls, etc. > > > > > > Britain and the USA are broke/in debt. China is over-extended. Etc. > > > > > > The best way out of debt is not to spend money you don't have and pay > > > > off debts as soon as possible. > > > > > > On Aug 18, 6:37 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > It does seem ludicrus to me that with an ever expanding population > > > > > that next to nowt has been done to expand our infrastructure. We > need > > > > > to be building more prisions, more hospitals, more shcools, more > > > > > social houseing. I mean that is common sense innit? > > > > > > > It also occours to me that amongst the very best ways out of > recision > > > > > is building. > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 12:31 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > You will also wind up paying higher taxes for those that are sent > to > > > > > > prison according to a lawyer on BBC radio last night. I think he > said > > > > > > prisons are already burdened with 86,000 souls (but the USA beats > that > > > > > > figure by miles). It sounds like the courts are swamped and > handing > > > > > > down stiff sentences so the country can repair its moral > core/civil > > > > > > behavior. Besides, the Olympics are coming up and after all that > money > > > > > > is invested, one would not want to frighten away the tourists- > like > > > > > > they have in the Middle East. > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:34 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Don't worry, archy. You will be paying higher insurance > premiums to > > > > > > > cover the losses anyway. Trickle down justice. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:18 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think Orn is right. Rationalists are often impossible > fantasists > > > > > > > > leading highly disturbed lives. But if emotions are an ever > present > > > > > > > > as I'd agree, one can deny them to some degree if you can > catch > > > > > > > > yourself (and as importantly others) in them when moral > judgement runs > > > > > > > > afoot. > > > > > > > > That we are brainless in this area as a general population is > obvious > > > > > > > > from reaction to the UK 'riots' and demands for heavy > punishments (our > > > > > > > > courts are berserk at the moment) for these people but can't > even see > > > > > > > > that we are being looted by the rich and are not even > investigating > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > I'm an advocate of modern National Service that would involve > > > > > > > > disciplined work but not necessarily armed service - but we > can't pay > > > > > > > > for it because the rich have looted the money and have > > > > > > > > disproportionate influence on government through their rotten > > > > > > > > accumulations. > > > > > > > > We should be some time to such reactions before deciding, but > if one > > > > > > > > gives power such time it usually steal the moment and the > decision for > > > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 11:45 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ohh Rigys, i don't doubt for a second that thoese > effecthave every > > > > > > > > > right to be angry, I question wether or not morality is > best served > > > > > > > > > with any emotional attachment. I have used anger as an > example, but > > > > > > > > > really I mean all emotions. > > > > > > > > > > > A freind of mine posted on facebook something along the > lines of bring > > > > > > > > > back national servic, as a punishment for the looters. This > was said > > > > > > > > > in anger and when it comes down to it, is it a good idea to > teach > > > > > > > > > thugs how to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 11:45 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There must be laws on the books to cover riots, looting, > damage to > > > > > > > > > > property. This isn't the first era of a poor economy for > Britain. Has > > > > > > > > > > networking changed the formulas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Another factor is immigration and clash of cultures and > religions. > > > > > > > > > > What if once cheap labor is no longer needed? It seems to > me- though I > > > > > > > > > > may be wrong- that immigrants rarely return to their > original homeland > > > > > > > > > > and bring their new skills and education forward in third > world > > > > > > > > > > countries. And social programs may quash desires to roll > up their > > > > > > > > > > sleeves once again in their homeland. > > > > > > > > > > > > I learned this weekend from a discussion that one cannot > fire upon a > > > > > > > > > > thief- it's only permitted when one's life is in > jeopardy. That seems > > > > > > > > > > a thin line- wait till the bloke attempts to kill you! > Our laws have > > > > > > > > > > probably changed a great deal- I doubt cattle rustlers > were treated so > > > > > > > > > > mercifully. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to anger, I think shop owners and home dwellers and > townsmen had/ > > > > > > > > > > have every right to be blistering mad at the looters and > rioters. > > > > > > > > > > > > I made a long list of non-lethal protective measures. > Baseball bats > > > > > > > > > > were not on the list as they can crack a skull and kill > someone. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 6:09 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paradox, yes agreat frind of mine tells me the same > sorta thing, that > > > > > > > > > > > morality without emotion is somehow lacking. It is > partly due to his > > > > > > > > > > > words and my respect for him that I have started this > thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > However as Rigsy points out to evict a looter from his > council home > > > > > > > > > > > for his looting does not adress any problems, nor does > it serve as > > > > > > > > > > > adiquate punishment, and would I think only make things > worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This course of actions is a fine example of > thinking/talking about > > > > > > > > > > > morality whilst angry, and is to my mind no good at > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I maintian that morality is best sreved without > emotions attached, can > > > > > > > > > > > you show my why I am wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 5:31 pm, paradox <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deep question, Lee; not an easy one. One who suffers > injury must have > > > > > > > > > > > > the right of redress, be that restitution or > retribution, or else we > > > > > > > > > > > > live in Hobbes's state of nature. The question of > balance and > > > > > > > > > > > > proportionality is the proper remit of the law courts > and great minds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where the injury in question falls outside the > purview of the > > > > > > > > > > > > collective good or the legal framework to that end, > morality and > > > > > > > > > > > > values must act to constrain the individual in > respect of balance and > > > > > > > > > > > > proportionality; that is why it's so very vital that > we understand > > > > > > > > > > > > what we do when we tinker with the foundations and > structures of a > > > > > > > > > > > > society's moral compass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, i've always felt that emotions are the > fuel for the > > > > > > > > > > > > directed mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 1:28 pm, Lee Douglas < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So as we should all know we have had quite a week > of it here in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > UK. Facebook and many other web places have been > inundated with all > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorts of sillyness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calls to bring back national service, calls to > evict those found > > > > > > > > > > > > > guilty of the rioting and looting, calls to stop > their benifits. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > have witnessed some of my good good friends spew > out all mannor of > > > > > > > > > > > > > sillyness in their anger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have procliamed in the past that all questions of > morality are > > > > > > > > > > > > > better served sans emotions and I see much this > week that has only > > > > > > > > > > > > > firmed this view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to discover though the validity of this > thought tell me do > > > > > > > > > > > > > you agree, or not and why? People of ME sway my > opinion with your > > > > > > > > > > > > > wise words. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What good can come of deciding upon a course of > action whilst holding > > > > > > > > > > > > > onto your anger?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -... > > > > read more ยป
