excuses excuses Allan On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 3:32 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> Then consider geography and availability of resources such as water, > land suited for agriculture, raw materials suitable for trade, etc. > You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, as the saying goes. > Plus think of the damage done to some countries by poor management of > resources and more important, the ruination of soil/seeds by companies > such as Monsanto. Add tribal mentality, vengeful politics, spooky > religion, poor or non-existent education, delapidated infrastructure > and what have you got? A mess!!! It is unkind and dangerous to be so > idealistic that real facts and problems are overlooked- at least > that's my opinion- but I admire your hope. > > On Oct 24, 4:54 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > Huh... success is always a work in progress... and equality is always > > of treatment, empowerment and opportunity, each one which depends on > > our personal and community evolution ! > > > > On Oct 24, 2:46 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sadly, the aims of the United Nations have been a flop. > > > > > One problem is global communications have distorted the struggle it > > > takes to achieve- from personal competancy to democracy. I fear many > > > think success and equality is an instant thing. > > > > > On Oct 24, 4:15 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Allan, there is thread that Neil has started... it's important... > > > > starts with what " I " and we each might want, as in time vs work vs > > > > remuneration, sees problems in that context that democracy as a > system > > > > has, and recalls the presence of "banksters" and oligarchs who might > > > > certainly ( oxymoron ) thwart the kind of dispensation which will > > > > allow all that we seek in economic terms, to serve in turn our need > > > > for freedom and leisure ! > > > > > > First, as it is, we are not there at all... when our dream of a fair > > > > life, with freedom and sufficiency, can be guaranteed for everyone. > > > > > > Not when we have just ousted Gaddafi, who'd stolen 143 tonnes of gold > > > > ( approx US$ 8 billions ) with the connivance of this same world > order > > > > that prevails. > > > > > > Not when armies and militias are equipped to establish the " might is > > > > right " rule in US, Turkey, Israel, LatAm, Africa, ME, Pak, Maoists > in > > > > India n Nepal, Sri Lanka, Burma, China, Philipines, NKorea... and a > > > > whole host of motley warlords and rebels all over. > > > > > > Not when 1318 TNCs still control ownership over the wealth and means > > > > that produce 80% of world's revenues and bankroll most of the > > > > "might" ! > > > > > > Agreed a few societies can begin to take tentative steps... yet, > even > > > > in them, not everybody is on the same page, with the same degree of > > > > evolution. The Scandinavians are much better placed but there too the > > > > effects of globalisation and multi-culturalism is manifest, both for > > > > the better, in fostering liberalism, and worse, in fracturing the > > > > homogeneity and causing social fault lines. > > > > > > In conclusion, I do not find myself in a position to lay out > > > > certainties... a whole picture with rules, institutions and > processes, > > > > clearly laid out across society, polity and economy, and a justice > > > > system to keep it going. > > > > > > Now, this is not say that I do not have ideas of what a modern > > > > Corporation should be like or what is the kind of Society I would > > > > prefer to have. > > > > > > I Much complexity about us... as individuals, persons... has to be > > > > sorted out in our spirit and our intellect, so as to be able to by- > > > > pass the emotional relativism we claim as a matter of right, in our > > > > needs and our value judgements, our willfulness, our motivations, our > > > > sense and extent of ownership, etc... before we really can expect > > > > simplicity in our deeds, speech, values, behaviour and way of life. > > > > > > The social, economic and political simplicity must seamlessly pervade > > > > our personal lives, which in turn should be self - empowered enough > to > > > > deal with the complexities that arise through our sub-conscious, > vital > > > > and emotional content. These complexities, drives and should be > > > > channeled into arts, meditation, literature, drama, celluloid, > canvas, > > > > music, crafts, even personal religious practices... but not find > > > > expression in speech or behaviour transgressing our community > > > > commitment to simplicity, fairness, honesty, freedom, non-violence, > > > > human rights, compassion and kindness. > > > > > > It's a tall order... one I believe in, live with, and most of the > time > > > > act in accord, without having hope or expectation of any kind from > > > > others or society about me. > > > > > > II We would always need human initiative... to create, improve, > > > > form, lead, manage, organise, write, debate, think, suggest, > > > > experiment... so, Capitalism would still be our best bet, under > > > > regulation to check... miscarriage of justice, unjust treatment, > > > > unfair practice or advantages, equal opportunity, transparency, human > > > > rights, recognition and reward, etc. > > > > > > Profit is welcome... profiteering is not. Profit should take care of > > > > reasonable expenses and remunerations, returns on risks and > > > > initiatives, cost of capital, and the costs of remaining in business > > > > in future incl R&D, creation of reserves, etc. > > > > > > III I would still go along with Democracy, not only for want of a > > > > better system of governance but also for the promises its evolution > > > > holds. All it needs are mechanisms and structures to feedback > people's > > > > will and participitation, not just from one election to another but > on > > > > monthly, fortnightly and daily basis. > > > > > > There should be a number of truly autonomous, empowered and competent > > > > regulatory bodies to oversee the Govt / Executive, quite as the > > > > Judiciary oversees the Legislature passing laws in accord with > > > > provisions in the Constitution... Regulatory Bodies for Exchanges, > > > > Insurance, Anti-Corrution, Citizen's Charter Of Services, Human > > > > Rights, Food, Education, Sports, Media, Advertising, Consumer > > > > Protection, Energy, Mining, Environment, Animal Rights, Water > > > > Resources, Forests, Pollution, Companies & Corporations, etc. > > > > > > There should Promotion bodies as well, as institutional arms of the > > > > govt. > > > > > > IV Corporations are unavoidable... but they ought to be more in the > > > > nature of public trusts, as in they serve the people and their needs, > > > > than private fiefs ! > > > > > > The rest will take care of itself... once its people interests and > > > > will that comes centre-stage in govt, parliament, judiciary, corp, > > > > police... that's all we want, in preparing for the day when people > are > > > > ready to form society in accord with their higher nature ! > > > > > > Sorry for the voluminous output. And Thanks for your patience. > > > > > > On Oct 24, 11:51 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I actually understand what you are saying Vam,, I do not think it > is > > > > > forcing ones will on another,, Just to the contrary,, it is > looking at > > > > > ideas to build a better society, hopefully you will add you > thoughts and > > > > > ideas,, looking at what is wrong and not just saying this is bad > , this is > > > > > bad condemning everything,, not this is bad but what is more > important is > > > > > we look at how to improve all of society taking the best of > eastern and > > > > > western ideas.. > > > > > > > I do not think India run by a few individuals using corporations > is what > > > > > you want.. or is it? > > > > > > > Unfortunately the world is becoming more dependent on the rest of > society. > > > > > The questions come down to what we see as good in our way of life > (western) > > > > > and hopefully what you see as good in your way of life (eastern) > but that > > > > > takes your input in all areas philosophical, financial, and in > economics, > > > > > which includes health care, how to deal with natural disasters, > > > > > Today unfortunately what happens in your home also effects me here > in > > > > > Holland , Neil in England and Molly in the States , just to name a > few.. > > > > > > > The question is two part.. 1; How do we create a better society 2: > how do > > > > > we prevent corporations from dominating the world society. > > > > > > > But if you do not add you insights on just how you see the world > government > > > > > should be.. How can your ideas be included if you do not add them? > > > > > > > Not that any of us have the power to change the world, there are > some of us > > > > > who qualify as "grouchy old men" me included.. But , I repeat But > maybe > > > > > someone will read what we have to say that can improve the world > and > > > > > society. > > > > > > > Vam your ideas on what corporations,and government should be like > is > > > > > extremely important,, at least to me. > > > > > > > The question is how do we improve all of society and is is it > possible to > > > > > keep the individuality and best of each society. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:30 AM, archytas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > I share your enthusiasm Gabby. All very well Vam - yet the > language > > > > > > around us is so deceptive we have to do something new with it so > as > > > > > > not to be suckered by fine words from the weasel. > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 5:35 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > From Brihadaranyaka Upanishad ( one of the oldest ) : > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the husband, my dear, is the > husband > > > > > > > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self which, in its > true > > > > > > > nature, is one with the Supreme Self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the wife, my dear, is the wife > loved, but > > > > > > > she is loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the sons, my dear, are the sons > loved, > > > > > > > hut they are loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of wealth, my dear, is wealth loved, > but it > > > > > > > is loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the brahmin, my dear, is the > brahmin > > > > > > > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the kshatriya, my dear, is the > kshatriya > > > > > > > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the worlds, my dear, are the > worlds > > > > > > > loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the gods, my dear, are the gods > loved, > > > > > > > but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > "Verily, not for the sake of the beings, my dear, are the > beings > > > > > > > loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > > > > > > > > Verily, not for the sake of the All, my dear, > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
