Lol do I start with you Gabby? I would not want to push people. If they
wanted to contribute it would be great. A larger starting point, but
nothing beyond their means though.

I can not help but wonder how it will evolve, I am sure it will be
interesting,
Allan
 On Oct 25, 2011 9:03 AM, "gabbydott" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I quite like your idea, Allan. You've got my vote to keep on trying to
> persuade the others to see if they have some 100 Euros to spare.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I know Neil  it is but a pittance  that is what so funny about it..  I
>> think the problem lies in the short term,,   Maybe that is what it should
>> be called is the pittance fund..
>> Money is a problem because it is guided by people who's interests is self
>> centered.  creating the pittance fund,, then we have the time and
>> possibility to get it to grow..  and provide the long term guidance to make
>> it successful over 500 plus years where it would reach the size..  at witch
>> time the pittance fund would be as powerful or more powerful than the other
>> markets..  it takes for sight..
>> What I am saying by putting up my 100 Euro is that our combined wisdom
>> and knowledge  exceeds that of the normal public. it would be chance to put
>> our theories into practice.. Even if we fail we have tried and can not be
>> faulted for that.. but I do not think that will happen,,
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:54 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> If you do any radical thinking at all you should at least guess money
>>> may be as much of a problem as an asset Allan.  The money in our
>>> pockets, under your mattress and in current accounts is dwarfed by the
>>> same currency in the derivatives and other shadow markets.  What we
>>> should focus on is how we can build through effort and organisation.
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 12:39 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > Find out ( Chris ? ) what it takes to register a formal NGO Trust
>>> > ( with Tax benefits and Donations tax-exempt ) operating a news -
>>> > magazine website ...
>>> >
>>> > WE THE PEOPLE : ALTERNATE NEWS, RECLAIMING EFFORTS & REDEFINED
>>> > THOUGHTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD...
>>> >
>>> > We then can pool in people centered news, efforts at reclaiming our
>>> > lives and freedoms, and path breaking thoughts from all over the world
>>> > in diverse fields such as science, medicine, sociology, psychology,
>>> > economics, management, public service, governance, entrepreneurship...
>>> > along lines of " Global Voices "... overseen by a crack Editorial
>>> > Team.
>>> >
>>> > We may then perhaps know what it would take... what more would have to
>>> > be scrounged and how...
>>> >
>>> > On Oct 24, 10:35 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > it is because it is compounded  ,, i figured it at
>>> > >  annual interest payment..  if you take your principle and
>>> immediately add
>>> > > the interest  you have increased your principle by that amount..  a
>>> hundred
>>> > > euro becomes 104 Euro..
>>> >
>>> > > to demonstrate the effect   if you are paying off the mortgage on
>>> your
>>> > > house in say 15 years,,  making a monthly payment,,  if you  split
>>> the
>>> > > payment in half paying the loan 1/2 on the 1st and the other 1/2 on
>>> the
>>> > > 15th..  remember you are paying exactly the same amount each month,,
>>> > >  instead of taking 15 years to pay the loan it will take you only 13
>>> 1/2
>>> > > years to pay it back..
>>> >
>>> > > If your payment was say $1,000. (no Euro sign) you would be saving
>>> your
>>> > > self $18,000. in payments..  not a bad piece of pocket change you
>>> ask me..
>>> >
>>> > > Does that help you understand they power of money if used
>>> intelligently and
>>> > > effectively?
>>> > > Allan
>>> >
>>> > > RP  could you see a company that simply made house payments??  they
>>> pay you
>>> > > once a month and you pay the Bankster 2X a month??
>>> >
>>> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > > > Again , Allan , I don't see how 100 euros grow so astronomically
>>> at a
>>> > > > simple rate of interest of 4% ?
>>> >
>>> > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Allan H <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > > Okay  I have been doing a lot of thinking ... well I am sure
>>> there are
>>> > > > > enough good ideas that can radically change the world..  Oddly I
>>> really
>>> > > > do
>>> > > > > not think it will take massive amounts,,  but it will take some
>>> funds
>>> > > > and I
>>> > > > > have a lot of faith in our group to be able to develop workable
>>> ideas..
>>> > > > > Now to put my money with my mouth is even though I do not have
>>> massive
>>> > > > > amounts of money I can easily contribute 100 Euro to commit to
>>>  a fund to
>>> > > > > change the world..  I do not know if others are willing to
>>> develop a
>>> > > > world
>>> > > > > improvement fund.  as I know this discussion will go one for
>>> years after
>>> > > > we
>>> > > > > are gone  I could for see it still in existence  500 onward..
>>> > > > > there needs to be unchangeable able rules like
>>> > > > > The principle can not be spent..
>>> > > > > No more than 20 % of the income can be spent on fund
>>> administration.
>>> > > > > 20 % of the income generated must be added to the principle
>>> every year,
>>> > > > (or
>>> > > > > more often)
>>> > > > > How the 60 % well .. some types of projects just do not make
>>>  nor are
>>> > > > meant
>>> > > > > to make money just for the improvement of society some where..
>>> > > > > Now there is even a small amount of money available.
>>> > > > > We need to discuss how to set it up  maybe I have it all
>>> confused,,
>>> > > >  anyways
>>> > > > > I will send the money to where it is decided to set up the
>>> funds,,
>>> > > >  There is
>>> > > > > one hundred Euro available sitting in a tin behind me..  If
>>> others do
>>> > > > > contribute it should be in amounts of their own currency and to
>>> an amount
>>> > > > > that will not cause harm to them or thier families... as once
>>> the money
>>> > > > is
>>> > > > > gone it is gone and can not be expect to have it returned.
>>> > > > > If we set it up and develop it correctly in five hundred years
>>> that 100
>>> > > > > Euros will have a value if it grows at a simple 4% of:
>>> > > > > 32,860,158,157.oo  Euro
>>> > > > > 32 billion is an amount that can have some on going effects to
>>> improve
>>> > > > > society..  It is called putting your money where your mouth is..
>>> The
>>> > > > > question is who wants to run it..  I am not able to Vam? Molly?
>>> Neil?
>>> > > > Chris?
>>> > > > >  Rigsy? hmmm
>>> > > > > Allan
>>> >
>>> > > > > Because
>>> >
>>> > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Vam <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > > >> Ah, Rigs... that isn't as tragic... as the fact that Cheats are
>>> Elites
>>> > > > >> and Elites are Thieves !
>>> >
>>> > > > >> On Oct 24, 2:23 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > > > >> > Machines/technology are replacing human labor. Children might
>>> do
>>> > > > >> > better being educated via computer and leave socialization to
>>> play
>>> > > > >> > groups and sports. The military can effect as much damage via
>>> remote
>>> > > > >> > control. But- will women return to being stay-at-home
>>> moms/homemakers
>>> > > > >> > thus freeing up what jobs remain for the men? I doubt it - it
>>> has
>>> > > > >> > become an ego/security matter for Western women. There will
>>> always be
>>> > > > >> > cheats and thieves, Archytas, who cause as much monetary
>>> losses as the
>>> > > > >> > "elites"- it's all relative, depending on the number of zeros.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > On Oct 24, 1:37 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > There was philosophy once called logical positivism.
>>>  \\it's people
>>> > > > >> > > were well-intentioned, like Russell and Carnap.  If you
>>> have a few
>>> > > > >> > > hours to spare I could explain its basics - in the end it
>>> got so
>>> > > > >> > > concerned with words they were all that was left.
>>>  Strangely it was
>>> > > > >> > > accused of being crude in its use of brute fact.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > The problem as I see it is that we want democracy but have
>>> not
>>> > > > found a
>>> > > > >> > > way to accept its biggest flaw - that of decisions made
>>> through the
>>> > > > >> > > sway of ignorance, and further problems with the corruption
>>> of
>>> > > > >> > > representatives.  Attempts at a fix of this in perfection
>>> are doomed
>>> > > > >> > > or the equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > One might try to produce communication free of ideology and
>>> this let
>>> > > > >> > > Reason alone have power (Habermas) - but as far as I can
>>> see this
>>> > > > >> > > never works - and Habermas only suggests his 'ideal speech
>>> > > > situation'
>>> > > > >> > > as an ideal type (following Weber).
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > The best positive I can reach is that we could change our
>>> material
>>> > > > >> > > conditions to produce less discontent.  To get to an
>>> understanding
>>> > > > of
>>> > > > >> > > this we need to agree on some basic facts - and the move
>>> towards
>>> > > > these
>>> > > > >> > > is critical.  People as old as Orn and myself can remember
>>> when it
>>> > > > was
>>> > > > >> > > possible for most in the West to get somewhere near this
>>> because
>>> > > > there
>>> > > > >> > > were plenty of well paid jobs about.  Oversimplifying a lot
>>> this is
>>> > > > >> > > not now the case and we need to establish what the new
>>> conditions
>>> > > > are.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > Productivity is vastly enhanced from the times in which our
>>> work
>>> > > > >> > > ethics arose.  My guess is we could get by quite nicely on
>>> a 30hr
>>> > > > >> > > working week and a 40 week year with retirement at 60 whilst
>>> > > > >> > > increasing current production.  I am only guessing, but the
>>> reason I
>>> > > > >> > > have to guess is odd.  Why don't we know?  There are
>>> perhaps a dozen
>>> > > > >> > > vital areas like this to which we have no accepted answers.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > The positive moves are all about establishing facts and the
>>> first of
>>> > > > >> > > these has to be an explanation of why we are so bad at this
>>> and
>>> > > > >> > > whether new technology can help break the 'spell'.  Here,
>>> the
>>> > > > paradox
>>> > > > >> > > is we need the technology to start working to this end with
>>> most
>>> > > > >> > > people not able to understand why and an existing situation
>>> in which
>>> > > > >> > > dominant education and media will try to pervert any
>>> attempts.
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > Many are discussing these issues in great detail.  I'm sure
>>> a few of
>>> > > > >> > > us could put a '101' together from Internet sources.
>>>  Semiotics is a
>>> > > > >> > > key discipline in the critique (Michael Betancourt), as is
>>> > > > >> > > environmental science (as opposed to the Kymer Vert) and
>>> most
>>> > > > >> > > economics that you don't get on Fox and the increasingly
>>> dumb BBC
>>> > > > >> > > (Steve Keen)  One can even argue the Tea Party and OccupyX
>>> have
>>> > > > >> > > similar protest issues.  You can get a radical smear of
>>> this on the
>>> > > > >> > > Keiser Report (courtesy on Russia Today).
>>> >
>>> > > > >> > > The aim is already worked out - a return to economies with
>>> a link
>>> > > > >> > > between toil (labour value) and reward and money in
>>> people's hands,
>>> > > > >> > > not hoarded by an elite or subject to their looting- and
>>> meaningful
>>> > > > >> > > democracy.
>>> >
>>> > > > > --
>>> > > > >  (
>>> > > > >   )
>>> > > > > |_D Allan
>>> >
>>> > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>> >
>>> > > --
>>> > >  (
>>> > >   )
>>> > > |_D Allan
>>> >
>>> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  (
>>   )
>> |_D Allan
>>
>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>>
>>
>

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