Tutoring by an older student they respect. In my experience, a parent or adult relative is often a poor choice for the tutoring role. My son would get very upset with how frustrated I would get when he wasn't catching on to what I saw as so easy it was ridiculous. Not his fault. Some people aren't meant to do maths I've decided.
dj On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:25 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Anyone any idea how we might teach or let learn my 14 year-olds so > they can be knowledgeable members of a democracy? Some of them have > noticed their education is about ranking them to the bottom. It looks > like an impossible quest to me. I believe the Meno question is > already riddled with false assumptions based in privilege and > ignorance. The Greeks may not have been in a position to revognise > this, but we are. > > On Nov 3, 9:57 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Amongst the answers to the knowledge value question is that it gives > > us social means (language) for rational consensus rather than the > > hygiene methods of the hive. Politics would suggest we still rely on > > buzzing. > > > > Oeve he Menon Nov 3, 9:13 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gabby's is quite a fair summary of the Stanford piece. The Greeks > > > were broadly without science, particularly modern brain science that > > > shifts us away from the rational in decision-making to a fair degree. > > > In the current economic disaster we have loads of people telling us > > > they know what to do and extraordinarily boring news coverage of their > > > farcical deliberations. At stake around the world is that democracy > > > we have only had in promises - one of peace and reasonable > > > equality.Most in history that has been claimed as fact or knowledge > > > has turned out to be myth,fable or reliant on grand narratives > > > (various gods and ethics) and manipulated by dominant groups of one > > > kind or another. Gabby has always been quick to point this out with > > > one sting or another. Vam's put forward a kind of sane standard that > > > still leaves us with the problem of the criterion - the paradox of > > > what comes first - knowing what or knowing how? - and thus how > > > reliable are our methodologies. > > > My own frustrations with philosophy led me to science - but the > > > frustrations with science's clerks can be more intense - and both > > > areas lack something literature can give and that religion promises. > > > On the odd occasion one could find people prepared to pull each > > > other's ideas apart the spirit was often brilliant and very unlikely > > > to lead to 'Molly's withdrawal'. The spirit of such dialogue gives > > > one a sense of security - at lower levels criticism really just > > > produces 'backfire' - the situation in which false smearing of the > > > other arises and evidence of the contrary opinion leads to a hardening > > > of incorrect belief. There is substantial psychological and > > > sociological consideration of this. > > > It seems to me that one of our first considerations on knowledge needs > > > to be the extent to which its influence is legitimate and I doubt much > > > of it is. I don't do 'god solutions' though I'd go a long way with > > > RP's 'structured human responsibility' from another thread. What I > > > want to know more about is how knowledge is generally denied human > > > beings. I've taken on teaching some really thick kids once a week and > > > may need a brain surgery manual to get anything through. One or two > > > of them have gathered they get something unconditional from me - some > > > of the others can't grasp the Dylan lyrics I play on 'farming the > > > mind'. The are resistant to school and their teachers have noticed > > > classes easier to teach with them out of them. Yet away from the > > > specifics of their problems, education seems to have done little for > > > all of us in our ability to control the small,powerful group who rule. > > > I suspect knowledge is much more implicated with dark power than > > > enlightenment. And I suspect teaching has little to do with producing > > > resourceful humans who can't hack he highly constrained curriculum. > > > The Meno question is an irrelevance for me because it has already > > > excluded the real difficulties, a key error in problem definition. > > > > > I was lucky enough to spend some days with African Bushmen years ago > > > and their knowledge was very different from mine - but distinctly one > > > I'd have needed to learn to survive their environment. Pity I've lost > > > touch - I have a feeling they could teach my class more effectively > > > than me. > > > On Nov 3, 5:22 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Sure... I was aware of that in your context ! Thinking about knowing > > > > is not knowing enough. It is the being with the knowing that is > > > > knowing indeed. > > > > > > On Nov 3, 3:19 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > More and more, I find myself preferring a quiet mind, beyond the > > > > > thinking about knowing. > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 3:54 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I do see why "you" should considering the Knowledge vs Belief as > a > > > > > > teaser. It is valid question and has a defined answer. > > > > > > > > Knowledge is preferable than Belief... because - > > > > > > > > 1) It is found on known FACTS, usually many more than those > specific > > > > > > to a central matter < way to Larissa >, triggering familiarity > with > > > > > > surrounding terrain too ! So, if there was a cloudburst or a > landslide > > > > > > on the way of belief, knowledge will perhaps offer an alternate > way or > > > > > > the nearest shelter. > > > > > > > > 2) It comes in a package including the knowledge of secondary or > > > > > > adjunct facts, paths and PROCESSES, tertiary and sub - > processes... > > > > > > which makes our awareness of any matter, thing, being, person, > event > > > > > > or phenomena more complete, detailed and certain. > > > > > > > > 3) It always leads to MORE KNOWLEDGE... more accurate, more > extensive, > > > > > > things new, more deep... > > > > > > > > So, why is it considered a teaser... to those of us ? > > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 1:38 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The question why knowledge is distinctively valuable has an > important > > > > > > > historical precedent in Plato's Meno in which Socrates raises > the > > > > > > > question of why knowledge is more valuable than mere true > belief. > > > > > > > Initially, we might appeal to the fact that knowledge appears > to be of > > > > > > > more practical use than true belief in order to mark this > difference > > > > > > > in value, but, as Socrates notes, this claim is far from > obvious on > > > > > > > closer inspection. After all, a true belief about the correct > way to > > > > > > > Larissa is surely of just as much practical use as knowledge > of the > > > > > > > way to Larissa—both will get us to our destination. Given that > we > > > > > > > clearly do value knowledge more than mere true belief, the > fact that > > > > > > > there is no obvious explanation of why this should be so > creates a > > > > > > > problem. We will call the issue of why knowledge is more > valuable than > > > > > > > mere true belief, the Meno problem. > > > > > > > > > You can get the rest here - > http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-value/ > > > > > > > > > I somehow doubt I will be causing much mouse clicking in > posting the > > > > > > > link! I did some work on knowledge justification and value > whilst > > > > > > > bored out of my tree, recovering from a serious injury. I was > > > > > > > discovering most of academic study is 'witterpiss for > wuckfits' at the > > > > > > > time. There's a big snag in the Meno problem in that it > restricts us > > > > > > > to argument not much informed by science. We could sit down > all day > > > > > > > trying to define knowledge, which might be nice under the > Greek sun > > > > > > > with some Rakis, local beer and imported coffee. No one has > defined > > > > > > > knowledge - rather as we don't have a precise decimal for pi. > There > > > > > > > are, of course, many definitions. > > > > > > > > > There are lots of teasers like this in philosophy. My take on > this > > > > > > > is : > > > > > > > 1.there are some things I believe true and have tested > scientifically > > > > > > > or in mathematical proof - these I trust as knowledge > > > > > > > 2. there are some things I think true and can't do the above > with. > > > > > > > 3. etc. etc. on what I consider reliable or barking. > > > > > > > > > we worry too much about this kind of stuff and not enough > about the > > > > > > > issues of the condition of ignorance. >
