Living creatures can be quite cooperative- maybe moreso than humans- in fact, I'd say humans have been the most destructive creature on earth.
As far as the human "lust for reproduction", it served a social purpose: slave labor, warriors, factory workers, settlements/towns, political and religious power, customers. Large families had an economic purpose in the past with a preference for males. On Sep 28, 4:33 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > We live on a hill between two rivers Allan. The town here floods, but > its such a dump now we don't go there. The weather in NW England is > pretty bad generally, but this has been a very bad summer as opposed > to standardly bad. I'm off to the dog track at Belle Vue on Saturday > night - just for a daft night out. I expect a few 'alien runners' > there! > > If there is intelligent life elsewhere I expect they won't be animal > like us. Evolution is red in tooth and claw in part, but also about > cooperation and Borg-like integration of species. Whilst I see mind > as a lot to do with brain processing, evidence mounts that this is > only part of the story - some ants that are enslaved now act in > rebellion against there masters with no 'hope' of improving their own > individual condition, presumably on behalf of the rest of their > species. I expect aliens to be able to be able to do the Borg thing > and make use of what is biologically and technically available to make > themselves and not be stuck with our lusts for reproduction. My guess > is such assimilation would not be to dominate or produce 'drones'. > > On he speed of light we know it depends on the medium it is travelling > in, slowing to about bicycle speed in a Bose-Einstein condensate, > almost stopping in such and emerging as a matter wave. If gravity > exists we don't know how fast it travels or how fast space expands. > The issue of quantum stuff like instantaneous knowing in wave equation > systems in which the bits 'know' each other remains. > > Other species are nw only with us in assimilation or history and our > fate may be little more. We are only special in made-up stories of > god, origin and heroes we know are trash. One of my questions about > robot heaven or advanced inter-galactic society is why anyone would > risk human beings spoiling it! > > On 28 Sep, 13:28, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > What about the Elysian Fields for fallen heroes and the blessed- > > mentioned in the Odyssey and Aeneid? I worry about the non-heroes and > > esp. those who are massacred and dumped in a pit or potter's grave > > with no ceremony. But I do agree, we dabble in heaven and hell during > > our lifetimes. For instance, a bad marriage is compared to Hell- > > true! :-) A sensory delight of the flesh or palate is compared to > > Heaven. The afterlife was popular in early Christianity to give the > > poor hope but later you could buy your way into heaven with > > indulgences and the guilt remains, perhaps, with charities and > > volunteerism. I have a more practical view but let's face it- people > > want easy answers, easy fixes/exits. > > > On Sep 28, 12:17 am, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in general. You'd > > > think that would be universal, and it does seem to be borne out by > > > Western mythologies, with some exceptions. For instance, the Greeks had > > > Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there; everyone else > > > went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were lucky enough to > > > land there in general population, and terrifying if the gods put you in > > > Tartarus. And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in any sort of > > > afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons whyChristianity sold > > > like hotcakes. Eastern religions such as Buddhism had various hells and > > > heavens, but they were sort of besides the point: your karma is / was > > > supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the Wheel of > > > Rebirth, which was supposed to put you in Nirvana, which was less a > > > Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have much to say about > > > heavenly afterworlds; its whole point is to make this world more just > > > and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to figure out. > > > > But as to your question of whether humans long for uncorrupted worlds, I > > > think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes them very > > > seriously. And I think they've got a point: I mean, if you're taking > > > your present existence at all seriously, then just what is an afterlife > > > supposed to be about? Are we supposed to be eating bonbons all day and > > > living in some version of American luxury? I'd like to believe in > > > Heaven --which for me looks like a kind of liberal college town, with > > > libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that seems kind of > > > empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness. Without death, without a > > > final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW and die knowing > > > that you've used your life well--without that, I think heaven would > > > become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse. Unless, of course, what's > > > waiting for us on the other side is something superrational but > > > beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such there be. > > > > So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of uncorrupt worlds, > > > but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be bustable soap > > > bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how could it be any > > > other way? Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound sensible about all > > > of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a scared ex-Catholic > > > who is terrified of death and wants to solve the Big Question before > > > they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass. > > > > --Bill > > > > On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > I wonder where you put the mythological and religious other-worldlies- > > > > from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of Dante's > > > > "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do humans long for uncorrupted worlds? > > > > > On Sep 27, 6:23 pm, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I'm with the pragmatists on the question of intelligent alien species. > > > >> Many scientists who speculate on this sort of thing --though there > > > >> really aren't that many of them-- say that such species wouldn't > > > >> resemble anything so comforting as a humanoid physiology, but I think > > > >> they're partly mistaken. Surely there would be surprises in the way > > > >> nature cooks up life on other planets with radically different > > > >> chemistries than our dear old Mama Earth. But I think there's reason > > > >> to > > > >> suppose that many alien species would resemble us. After all, any > > > >> species we might imagine has to cope with gravity as it evolves. So > > > >> they're much more likely to evolve some form of locomotion which > > > >> involves two, four or six pedal extremities (as Fats Waller calls > > > >> them) > > > >> rather than three or five: even-numbered legs are less wobbly and more > > > >> amenable to balanced movement which consumes fewer calories. . Also, > > > >> sense organs like eyes and ears are likely to be located in or close to > > > >> a head, as there is survival value in having sense organs located close > > > >> to a brain, or whatever such species might use for brains. Finally, > > > >> everyone in the cosmos requires energy to get going, so they're either > > > >> going to evolve photosynthesis and take their energy directly from > > > >> their > > > >> sun or suns, or they're going to take their sunbeams indirectly by > > > >> consuming something lower in the food chain. I'm sure there are lots > > > >> of > > > >> evolution pathways I'm leaving out, seeing as I'm a curious poet rather > > > >> than a serious scientist type of guy, but I think these notions are, as > > > >> Allan named other ideas of mine, sensible provisos. > > > > >> PS. I left out centipedes and millipedes with their scores of legs, > > > >> but > > > >> I think y'all's get what I'm saying here. > > > > >> --Bill > > > > >> On 9/27/2012 3:57 PM, archytas wrote: > > > > >>> I haven't seen any UFOs and tend not to be much interested in people > > > >>> who claim to have - at least without Bill's sensible provisos. The > > > >>> speed of thought as a brain process is slower than light-speed - but > > > >>> then I'm basically a tropical fish realist. I'd have a bet that no > > > >>> one in this group would really have much of a definition of light- > > > >>> speed and the Ricel curvature tensor, Euler Langrangian and the rest > > > >>> of Einstein's field equations. I mean no offence and don't do much of > > > >>> this science myself. > > > >>> If you point out to a physicist that the people from the future who > > > >>> have invented the time machine are in extraordinarily short supply in > > > >>> our present he may come up with some mathematical guff on the shape of > > > >>> the universe that explains this or makes time travel only possible to > > > >>> the future. I have seen demons - plodding back to camp after a week's > > > >>> endurance exercise with no food for two days I was visually convinced > > > >>> the sentries were vampires but still asked them where the Naffi was. > > > >>> My guess is that we travel through space as primitive life-forms with > > > >>> evolution built-in and waiting to unfold. We may thus have come from > > > >>> a much more advanced civilisation than ours bound by the speed of > > > >>> light, capable of the biological engineering but not space-flight much > > > >>> more advanced than our own. Calculations give 28 years as the time to > > > >>> reach the edge of the known universe - but this is the time inside the > > > >>> ship accelerating to near light speed fairly slowly. Space is not > > > >>> friction free and it's doubtful we or our instruments could take the > > > >>> radiation of light-speed flight. > > > >>> I rather hope there are some nice, genuinely civilised aliens thinking > > > >>> of coming here. In my speculation, intelligent life tends to worry > > > >>> about food chains led by apes as these have been notoriously war-like. > > > >>> I'm into bees and ants rather than UFOs at the moment. Bees use > > > >>> 'pharma' to combat fungal infections. Ants take slaves - killing the > > > >>> adults of another species and > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
