Truth is, protestants have to pay as well. Even atheists pay for churches here in Germany, less though and through general tax paying.
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > I thought Bill is long enough,, I was listening on the news that it is a > good thing that you are protestant ,, the news was saying you have to pay > to be roman Catholic in Germany.. kind of a church support thing. > Allan > > On Oct 1, 2012 8:50 PM, "William L Houts" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello Gabby --it's great to meet you too. I don't know what happened with >> the name thing --I'm sure one William L. Houts is enough for anyone. >> >> >> --Bill >> >> >> >> >> On 10/1/2012 10:02 AM, gabbydott wrote: >> >> Hello Bill, I noticed that your screen name on the group website is rather >> long. It reads: William L. Houts William L. Houts Lukaeon William L. Houts. >> I was wondering if this was your intention. >> >> Maybe yes. Just so much, I do differentiate between heaven and afterlife >> and their individual usability for corruption. Both terms are somehow >> related to the future, but the access is different. Sorry, I forgot to >> introduce myself. My name is Gabby (short for Gabriele), I am a Protestant, >> my first language is German, and I believe in God. I like to listen to other >> people's stories which is why I have learned to keep my own very short. Nice >> meeting you. :) >> >> On Friday, September 28, 2012 7:17:08 AM UTC+2, William L. Houts William >> L. Houts Lukaeon William L. Houts wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in general. You'd >>> think that would be universal, and it does seem to be borne out by >>> Western mythologies, with some exceptions. For instance, the Greeks had >>> Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there; everyone else >>> went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were lucky enough to >>> land there in general population, and terrifying if the gods put you in >>> Tartarus. And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in any sort of >>> afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons whyChristianity sold >>> like hotcakes. Eastern religions such as Buddhism had various hells and >>> heavens, but they were sort of besides the point: your karma is / was >>> supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the Wheel of >>> Rebirth, which was supposed to put you in Nirvana, which was less a >>> Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have much to say about >>> heavenly afterworlds; its whole point is to make this world more just >>> and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to figure out. >>> >>> But as to your question of whether humans long for uncorrupted worlds, I >>> think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes them very >>> seriously. And I think they've got a point: I mean, if you're taking >>> your present existence at all seriously, then just what is an afterlife >>> supposed to be about? Are we supposed to be eating bonbons all day and >>> living in some version of American luxury? I'd like to believe in >>> Heaven --which for me looks like a kind of liberal college town, with >>> libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that seems kind of >>> empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness. Without death, without a >>> final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW and die knowing >>> that you've used your life well--without that, I think heaven would >>> become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse. Unless, of course, what's >>> waiting for us on the other side is something superrational but >>> beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such there be. >>> >>> So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of uncorrupt worlds, >>> but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be bustable soap >>> bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how could it be any >>> other way? Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound sensible about all >>> of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a scared ex-Catholic >>> who is terrified of death and wants to solve the Big Question before >>> they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass. >>> >>> >>> --Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote: >>> > I wonder where you put the mythological and religious other-worldlies- >>> > from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of Dante's >>> > "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do humans long for uncorrupted worlds? >>> > >>> > On Sep 27, 6:23 pm, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> I'm with the pragmatists on the question of intelligent alien species. >>> >> Many scientists who speculate on this sort of thing --though there >>> >> really aren't that many of them-- say that such species wouldn't >>> >> resemble anything so comforting as a humanoid physiology, but I think >>> >> they're partly mistaken. Surely there would be surprises in the way >>> >> nature cooks up life on other planets with radically different >>> >> chemistries than our dear old Mama Earth. But I think there's reason >>> >> to >>> >> suppose that many alien species would resemble us. After all, any >>> >> species we might imagine has to cope with gravity as it evolves. So >>> >> they're much more likely to evolve some form of locomotion which >>> >> involves two, four or six pedal extremities (as Fats Waller calls >>> >> them) >>> >> rather than three or five: even-numbered legs are less wobbly and >>> >> more >>> >> amenable to balanced movement which consumes fewer calories. . Also, >>> >> sense organs like eyes and ears are likely to be located in or close >>> >> to >>> >> a head, as there is survival value in having sense organs located >>> >> close >>> >> to a brain, or whatever such species might use for brains. Finally, >>> >> everyone in the cosmos requires energy to get going, so they're either >>> >> going to evolve photosynthesis and take their energy directly from >>> >> their >>> >> sun or suns, or they're going to take their sunbeams indirectly by >>> >> consuming something lower in the food chain. I'm sure there are lots >>> >> of >>> >> evolution pathways I'm leaving out, seeing as I'm a curious poet >>> >> rather >>> >> than a serious scientist type of guy, but I think these notions are, >>> >> as >>> >> Allan named other ideas of mine, sensible provisos. >>> >> >>> >> PS. I left out centipedes and millipedes with their scores of legs, >>> >> but >>> >> I think y'all's get what I'm saying here. >>> >> >>> >> --Bill >>> >> >>> >> On 9/27/2012 3:57 PM, archytas wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> I haven't seen any UFOs and tend not to be much interested in people >>> >>> who claim to have - at least without Bill's sensible provisos. The >>> >>> speed of thought as a brain process is slower than light-speed - but >>> >>> then I'm basically a tropical fish realist. I'd have a bet that no >>> >>> one in this group would really have much of a definition of light- >>> >>> speed and the Ricel curvature tensor, Euler Langrangian and the rest >>> >>> of Einstein's field equations. I mean no offence and don't do much >>> >>> of >>> >>> this science myself. >>> >>> If you point out to a physicist that the people from the future who >>> >>> have invented the time machine are in extraordinarily short supply in >>> >>> our present he may come up with some mathematical guff on the shape >>> >>> of >>> >>> the universe that explains this or makes time travel only possible to >>> >>> the future. I have seen demons - plodding back to camp after a >>> >>> week's >>> >>> endurance exercise with no food for two days I was visually convinced >>> >>> the sentries were vampires but still asked them where the Naffi was. >>> >>> My guess is that we travel through space as primitive life-forms with >>> >>> evolution built-in and waiting to unfold. We may thus have come from >>> >>> a much more advanced civilisation than ours bound by the speed of >>> >>> light, capable of the biological engineering but not space-flight >>> >>> much >>> >>> more advanced than our own. Calculations give 28 years as the time >>> >>> to >>> >>> reach the edge of the known universe - but this is the time inside >>> >>> the >>> >>> ship accelerating to near light speed fairly slowly. Space is not >>> >>> friction free and it's doubtful we or our instruments could take the >>> >>> radiation of light-speed flight. >>> >>> I rather hope there are some nice, genuinely civilised aliens >>> >>> thinking >>> >>> of coming here. In my speculation, intelligent life tends to worry >>> >>> about food chains led by apes as these have been notoriously >>> >>> war-like. >>> >>> I'm into bees and ants rather than UFOs at the moment. Bees use >>> >>> 'pharma' to combat fungal infections. Ants take slaves - killing the >>> >>> adults of another species and taking the larvae. These slaves then >>> >>> raise the slaver brood. Interestingly, the ant slaves rebel and kill >>> >>> the pupae of their masters - an act that does not favour the >>> >>> individuals a they will die, but does seem to be altruistic in favour >>> >>> of other colonies of the enslaved species. I mention this to suggest >>> >>> science is not a human invention, just something in evolution we are >>> >>> expanding. >>> >>> UFOs remind me of religion generally - people seem to bond around >>> >>> ludic claims about golden salamanders and what cannot be proved. I >>> >>> guess we will find life or past life-sign on Mars. Salvation may >>> >>> come >>> >>> from a mother-ship, but my own feeling is that our inability to >>> >>> develop science as we could is a more important thought experiment. >>> >>> In respect of this problem I recommend 'Bad Pharma' by Ben >>> >>> Goldacre, He finds a �600 billion industry in which more money >>> >>> is >>> >>> spent on marketing than on research and development, where the >>> >>> results >>> >>> of clinical trials of new drugs are massaged, and in which regulators >>> >>> fail to regulate. Papers supposedly by respected academics are >>> >>> ghostwritten by drug companies, and patients' pressure groups are >>> >>> covertly sponsored by pill manufacturers. >>> >>> I can't for the life of me work out why we aren't directing our >>> >>> collective towards tapping into the asteroid belt and beyond instead >>> >>> of ADMASS. >>> >>> On 24 Sep, 20:15, William L Houts <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm placing my bet on thoughtspeed. It's a great concept and it's a >>> >>>> great word. How could I do any better than that? >>> >>>> --Bill >>> >>>> On 9/24/2012 7:17 AM, Don Johnson wrote: >>> >>>>> I agree with Allan the distance challenge is daunting. In an >>> >>>>> endless >>> >>>>> universe there's also no doubt in my mind there are other >>> >>>>> inhabitable >>> >>>>> planets out there but very unlikely any "aliens" will be visiting >>> >>>>> us. >>> >>>>> But there is hope.... >>> >>>>> http://www.npl.washington.edu/av/altvw81.html >>> >>>>> It's fun to speculate. The ball is in your court. >>> >>>>> dj >>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:51 PM, William L Houts >>> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>>> I've been around for a while now, so I thought I'd put in a topic >>> >>>>>> for >>> >>>>>> discussion. I'm very interested in the UFO phenomenon and wonder >>> >>>>>> what the >>> >>>>>> singing minds here have to say about it. As for me, I don't have >>> >>>>>> a dog in >>> >>>>>> this fight --I tend to think that there's something to them, >>> >>>>>> something very >>> >>>>>> unusual, but I'm not at all certain that they're even piloted. >>> >>>>>> Jacques >>> >>>>>> Valee, one of the more interesting theorists on the subject, says >>> >>>>>> that >>> >>>>>> they're something like external dreams. Well, he doesn't say that >>> >>>>>> exactly, >>> >>>>>> but that's how I interpret him. Carl Jung, who was also very >>> >>>>>> interested in >>> >>>>>> the topic, says something very similar. >>> >>>>>> I have an experience to relate, too. About fifteen or sixteen >>> >>>>>> years ago, I >>> >>>>>> was flying down to Las Vegas on Southwest. Looking out of my >>> >>>>>> window I saw, >>> >>>>>> perhaps 20,000 feet below us, a disc-shaped object. It was >>> >>>>>> featureless and, >>> >>>>>> in the bright sun and from this angle, almost perfectly white. It >>> >>>>>> wasn't >>> >>>>>> particularly fast and other than the fact that it was round, it >>> >>>>>> wasn't all >>> >>>>>> that interesting. I told my three travel mates, and they all >>> >>>>>> basically >>> >>>>>> called me a liar. (I was very interested in occult topics in >>> >>>>>> those days, so >>> >>>>>> my judgment was highly suspect.) I'm not convinced that it wasn't >>> >>>>>> something >>> >>>>>> like a military test craft or something like that, but it was a >>> >>>>>> UFO both in >>> >>>>>> the high woo woo sense and in the sense that it was an unfamiliar >>> >>>>>> flying >>> >>>>>> object. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. >>> >>>>>> Tennis, anyone? >>> >>>>>> --Bill >>> >>>>>> -- "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead and boy are my arms >>> >>>>>> tired." >>> >>>>>> -- >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead >>> >>>> and boy are my arms tired." >>> >> -- >>> >> "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead >>> >> and boy are my arms tired."- Hide quoted text - >>> >> >>> >> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead >>> and boy are my arms tired." >>> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead >> and boy are my arms tired." >> >> -- >> >> >> > > -- > > > --
