crack the whip Gabby crack the whip Allan On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:25 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> So the right time scale is missing now, oh dear! You kicked out old > religions of your economic system and got fresh psychologists in and > it's still not precise enough to conquer the unknown? Life shows no > mercy. > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 5:47 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm inclined to see answers with god or everything in them like > > miracle balls in cricket or the miracle pass in rugby. Trying them > > usually prevents the hard work and odd spark that might win he game. > > What I want to know is what we can reasonably hope to do on this > > planet in the constraints and future of technology including a moral > > technology of work and reward. This might give is a time-scale on > > which to go UFO. I suspect one reason for UFO stories is to brand > > such non-conventional 'wisdom' as belief in doing our best with what > > we've got as conspiratorial. > > > > On 1 Oct, 05:25, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I do feel better it seem it takes longer to recover though I am > greatful > >> the one before the last one was a year and half ago. > >> > >> Now of I could get rid of weird dreams... Tonights was a pelican up > >> chucking a live cat with physical side effects.. Did manage to write it > >> down. > >> > >> The only religion part of the discussion is my personal belief that the > >> entirety universe is physically made up of God as I understand him. > >> Allan > >> On Oct 1, 2012 5:41 AM, "James" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I am left outside science and religion on this Allan, perhaps we have > some > >> > of that in common. Sending complex biological organisms through > >> > interstellar space doesn't sound efficient if there are any > alternatives. > >> > Going up the spectrum of biotech advancements at some unknown point a > >> > species might be able to choose not just the technological method but > >> > innovate the medium of transport itself. > >> > >> > Perhaps they would kindly drop me a mental note explaining why > determinism > >> > is accurate, except when it is not, and how that could make any sense. > >> > Perhaps another medium is atemporal, but we are rooted here and now. > What > >> > part of us could possibly lie outside the massive barriers of > physics, I'm > >> > still looking for answers myself. What I see as plain and common as > gravity > >> > leads me right here feeling dumb as a box of rocks. > >> > >> > Purpose is a frightening notion.. I don't resent that some have found > >> > answers so much as it seems people latch on answers for security, > maybe > >> > I'll demand my dog to tell me what 6*7 is tomorrow. ;-) Hope your > recovery > >> > is going well Allan, you are sounding better. > >> > >> > Yikes, belated welcome to the group Bill! > >> > >> > On 9/28/2012 10:27 PM, Allan H wrote: > >> > >> >> Why can not our or for that matter any other alien body else where be > >> >> .nothing more than a vehicle for the soul? > >> >> Allan > >> > >> >> On Sep 29, 2012 3:17 AM, "archytas" <[email protected] > >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> >> It strikes me Bill that UFO stories and thinking about the > future and > >> >> better places (heaven etc) can be part of science. We have no > answers > >> >> to what we are doing here other than speculation. I tend to > think the > >> >> economic world is religiously organised as a control fraud - this > >> >> aspect of religion bothers me a lot and the spiritual does not. > >> >> Reporting in UFOs (and such matters as spontaneous human > combustion) > >> >> is so naff I can't get interested. > >> > >> >> We would generally wonder why we don't know human and cosmic > purpose > >> >> and consider this a disadvantage hard to imagine a benevolent > creator > >> >> giving us. The Spartans, at least in myth, sent their male kids > out > >> >> to cope in the wild. It would be good if mum and dad turned up > in a > >> >> space-ship with an explanation. > >> > >> >> On 28 Sep, 22:33, archytas <[email protected] > >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> >> > We live on a hill between two rivers Allan. The town here > >> >> floods, but > >> >> > its such a dump now we don't go there. The weather in NW > England > >> >> is > >> >> > pretty bad generally, but this has been a very bad summer as > >> >> opposed > >> >> > to standardly bad. I'm off to the dog track at Belle Vue on > >> >> Saturday > >> >> > night - just for a daft night out. I expect a few 'alien > runners' > >> >> > there! > >> > >> >> > If there is intelligent life elsewhere I expect they won't be > >> >> animal > >> >> > like us. Evolution is red in tooth and claw in part, but also > >> >> about > >> >> > cooperation and Borg-like integration of species. Whilst I > see > >> >> mind > >> >> > as a lot to do with brain processing, evidence mounts that > this is > >> >> > only part of the story - some ants that are enslaved now act > in > >> >> > rebellion against there masters with no 'hope' of improving > their > >> >> own > >> >> > individual condition, presumably on behalf of the rest of > their > >> >> > species. I expect aliens to be able to be able to do the Borg > thing > >> >> > and make use of what is biologically and technically > available to > >> >> make > >> >> > themselves and not be stuck with our lusts for reproduction. > My > >> >> guess > >> >> > is such assimilation would not be to dominate or produce > 'drones'. > >> > >> >> > On he speed of light we know it depends on the medium it is > >> >> travelling > >> >> > in, slowing to about bicycle speed in a Bose-Einstein > condensate, > >> >> > almost stopping in such and emerging as a matter wave. If > gravity > >> >> > exists we don't know how fast it travels or how fast space > expands. > >> >> > The issue of quantum stuff like instantaneous knowing in wave > >> >> equation > >> >> > systems in which the bits 'know' each other remains. > >> > >> >> > Other species are nw only with us in assimilation or history > and > >> >> our > >> >> > fate may be little more. We are only special in made-up > stories of > >> >> > god, origin and heroes we know are trash. One of my questions > >> >> about > >> >> > robot heaven or advanced inter-galactic society is why anyone > would > >> >> > risk human beings spoiling it! > >> > >> >> > On 28 Sep, 13:28, rigsy03 <[email protected] > >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > What about the Elysian Fields for fallen heroes and the > blessed- > >> >> > > mentioned in the Odyssey and Aeneid? I worry about the > >> >> non-heroes and > >> >> > > esp. those who are massacred and dumped in a pit or potter's > >> >> grave > >> >> > > with no ceremony. But I do agree, we dabble in heaven and > hell > >> >> during > >> >> > > our lifetimes. For instance, a bad marriage is compared to > Hell- > >> >> > > true! :-) A sensory delight of the flesh or palate is > compared to > >> >> > > Heaven. The afterlife was popular in early Christianity to > give > >> >> the > >> >> > > poor hope but later you could buy your way into heaven with > >> >> > > indulgences and the guilt remains, perhaps, with charities > and > >> >> > > volunteerism. I have a more practical view but let's face > it- > >> >> people > >> >> > > want easy answers, easy fixes/exits. > >> > >> >> > > On Sep 28, 12:17 am, William L Houts <[email protected] > >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in > >> >> general. You'd > >> >> > > > think that would be universal, and it does seem to be > borne > >> >> out by > >> >> > > > Western mythologies, with some exceptions. For instance, > the > >> >> Greeks had > >> >> > > > Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there; > >> >> everyone else > >> >> > > > went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were > lucky > >> >> enough to > >> >> > > > land there in general population, and terrifying if the > gods > >> >> put you in > >> >> > > > Tartarus. And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in > any > >> >> sort of > >> >> > > > afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons > >> >> whyChristianity sold > >> >> > > > like hotcakes. Eastern religions such as Buddhism had > >> >> various hells and > >> >> > > > heavens, but they were sort of besides the point: your > karma > >> >> is / was > >> >> > > > supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the > >> >> Wheel of > >> >> > > > Rebirth, which was supposed to put you in Nirvana, which > was > >> >> less a > >> >> > > > Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have > much to > >> >> say about > >> >> > > > heavenly afterworlds; its whole point is to make this > world > >> >> more just > >> >> > > > and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to > figure > >> >> out. > >> > >> >> > > > But as to your question of whether humans long for > >> >> uncorrupted worlds, I > >> >> > > > think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes > them > >> >> very > >> >> > > > seriously. And I think they've got a point: I mean, if > >> >> you're taking > >> >> > > > your present existence at all seriously, then just what > is an > >> >> afterlife > >> >> > > > supposed to be about? Are we supposed to be eating > bonbons > >> >> all day and > >> >> > > > living in some version of American luxury? I'd like to > >> >> believe in > >> >> > > > Heaven --which for me looks like a kind of liberal > college > >> >> town, with > >> >> > > > libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that > seems > >> >> kind of > >> >> > > > empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness. Without > >> >> death, without a > >> >> > > > final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW > and > >> >> die knowing > >> >> > > > that you've used your life well--without that, I think > heaven > >> >> would > >> >> > > > become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse. Unless, of > >> >> course, what's > >> >> > > > waiting for us on the other side is something > superrational but > >> >> > > > beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such > >> >> there be. > >> > >> >> > > > So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of > >> >> uncorrupt worlds, > >> >> > > > but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be > bustable > >> >> soap > >> >> > > > bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how > >> >> could it be any > >> >> > > > other way? Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound > >> >> sensible about all > >> >> > > > of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a > scared > >> >> ex-Catholic > >> >> > > > who is terrified of death and wants to solve the Big > >> >> Question before > >> >> > > > they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass. > >> > >> >> > > > --Bill > >> > >> >> > > > On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > > I wonder where you put the mythological and religious > >> >> other-worldlies- > >> >> > > > > from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of > >> >> Dante's > >> >> > > > > "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do > >> > >> ... > >> > >> read more ยป > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
