That's one of the crucial issues Allan - the original free-table was based in a slave economy. Wages involved in providing me with a decent coffee and snack I want are lousy - those involved in ripping fees for financial services I'd be happier were a government utility are generally better. What might the motivation to work be stripped of the necessity of income? Some doubt there would be any.
I'm about to do a short course so I can assess management apprentices - something I've done for 20 years (I even wrote and enacted some of the pilots). The only motivation is to be able to be a fee-taker - with some thought my students at least aren't being stuck with $70K debt. I wouldn't have taken well to the Villa Borghese being full of lager louts last weekend. It's hard to imagine what society would be without money-differentiation. Neighbours are beggared throughout the animal kingdom in order that a few get art and even good nosh with friends. Stephen Pinker has a book out on human pacification at the moment - suggesting our institutions get some things right. I tend to agree - but I'm also sure we are screwing up the land of plenty. On 1 Nov, 07:09, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > that is very true but where would they get cheap to essentially slave > labor,, they need to put the gold in their pockets so they can pay > homage to their god the golden calf.. > Allan > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:35 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > The good dream side of this is what you say Lee. But the thought > > experiment is a challenge to current ideology. I've noticed over the > > years that the most passionate defenders of the protestant work ethic > > don't do jobs involving hard work for low pay. > > > On Oct 26, 2:19 pm, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ahhhh robot heaven is my ideal. > > >> It gets rid of money as nobody would need to barter goods or services > >> to survive, it would mean that humans can spend more time growing and > >> learning, and can you imagine the various works of art, in all media? > > >> Now of course the thing to consider is the transitional period, and I guess > >> this is Archy's main thrust. Our history shows us that > >> such transitional periods are fraught with violence and upheaval, I suspect > >> a move to robotic heaven would be little different. > > >> So we have robots a plenty and much work going on in robotics. I suspect > >> the next thing we'll have to sort is robots that make and repair robots. > > >> Should we concentrate then on food and water production and distribution? > >> Why yes I think we should. > > >> Get that done and then nobody has to pay for food or water, ahhh now we are > >> getting somewhere. A world full of thinkers and artists! > > >> Energy next? > > >> On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 22:56:36 UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > >> > Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to investigate > >> > the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when the > >> > method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative > >> > suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of areas, > >> > including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and physics. > >> > Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form, > >> > sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should be > >> > distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely imagining > >> > any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from > >> > psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be > >> > distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem > >> > to require an experimental element. > >> >http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/ > > >> > One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to imagine > >> > a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our > >> > work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would mean > >> > for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work would be > >> > left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics > >> > would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive effect > >> > on just what current work ideologies are in place for. > > >> > One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is more or > >> > less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in > >> > banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of technology > >> > and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the > >> > amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in > >> > partial state of robot heaven. > > >> > Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive and > >> > education does little to provide job skills. We are sold life-styles > >> > and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in > >> > perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended gas- > >> > pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford a > >> > bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why we > >> > allow competition through crap wages and conditions. > > >> > A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less free. > >> > Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are areas > >> > that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing. > >> > Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so > >> > central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might > >> > encourage work without the rat race. > > > -- > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > I am a Natural Airgunner - > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
