Yes- the BBC scandal plus BenGhazzi and Petraeus and no-show testimony of latter and Clinton but at least there is a new definition for being embedded with the troops, isn't there?
On Nov 9, 7:41 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Never really imagine you as a mud wrestler rigs. How does one wrestle > mud by the way? Sounds a bit like politics. I bought a new car too - > or at least ordered one for the new year. A VW Scirocco - 2 litre > diesel with blue motion technology that gets 64 mpg and does 0 -60 in > 9.3 seconds - if one believed the salesman the energy it recycles from > braking would power a small town! Nice looking beast one can easily > imagine with a saddle. > > Not worth diluting beer over Romney, but I have noticed Obama is only > the drag version. There have been no calls for the Carnielli paper > from this group. It's mostly uninteresting, other than in that a > professional philosopher has noticed life slides on bull-grease. > What's really in my mind on this relates to rigsy saying that Goethe > was perhaps the last person to have a grasp of 'everything' - in fact, > even the great man was largely outside the kick off of modern > science. The modern problem is disinformation and education based in > old hat. > > Our most educated broadcast news channel here is C4. Last night they > did a bit of a review on Britain's hapless inquiry systems. A Tory MP > popped up to describe them as > 1. a means to kick problems into the long grass > 2. a means to cover-up in public pretending to do something with the > intent of changing nothing > 3. genuine and largely Victorian (forgotten) means to bring about > radical change by addressing real problems. > > We have a paedophile scandal here around Jimmy Saville - a pathetic > and now dead TV personality. Politicians are supposedly involved and > I'm connected in that my brother and father (school teachers) asked me > for advice when I was a cop - on Saville and some git associated with > him who ran a school disco. I got the git (who has just been re- > arrested) on unrelated criminal matters. We were sure he was abusing > young girls - but I can't tell you how hard it was to do anything when > evidence comes from people who can easily be further abused and > discredited by scumbag lawyers. My advice to my brother was that the > police and wider CJS was hapless - in another enquiry I was reduced to > pinning a drunk driving charge on a perpetrator in exasperation over > the real case. > > The other side of this stuff is false complaints and mad people who > claim to be experts and victims and are neither. In recent years I've > worked with an academic with a distinct tinge of madness (personally > delightful) who gets lots of the child abuse stuff right and who was > able to get bunches of cops to really look at street situations and > see the abuse. The woman concerned would be easy to attack on the > basis of her personal life, drinks a lot, shags fairly > indiscriminately - and has the score right. I've just been able to > interview some of the cops in terms of before and after - all are > concerned at just how much their eyes have been opened. > > My views on deception in argument are based in control fraud. There > are similarities between the rings that form to commit fraud and abuse > rings. I suspect the 'mechanisms' may be the base of party > politics. > > On 9 Nov, 08:29, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > What you are saying is the crimes against humanity and murders that > > Bush ordered is okay? > > > You need to buy a new car and put a saddle in it to stay out of the mud. > > Allan > > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:12 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Better to sit in the saddle then wrestle in the mud... > > > > On Nov 8, 1:23 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I hope the republicans get off their destructive high horse. Romney is > > >> right both sides need to work for the benefit of the whole nation, not > > >> just > > >> a select few. > > >> Allan > > > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > >> On Nov 8, 2012 5:21 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > I was struck that Obama's acceptance speech was prime BA - we could > > >> > hardly disagree a word yet have no reason to believe any of it is > > >> > happening, will happen and is anything other than an appeal to those > > >> > of us with liberal biology - yet we hope it is true and don't think of > > >> > the real problems under its sway. Romney was a model democrat in > > >> > defeat, accepting the will of the people and praying for his > > >> > opponent. More BA as the House will already be beavering away to make > > >> > Obama a lame duck fit to serve with a rigsy sauce. It's all, as > > >> > Goffman had it, 'face work'. > > >> > People my age were all taught Julius Caesar was a great leader who > > >> > invaded Britain in 53 AD. In fact, he had been seen off the year > > >> > before and couldn't get his lads to board the boats. The barbarians > > >> > and Philistines of history turn out to have been much more civilised, > > >> > artistic and all round good guys compared with the Greek and Roman > > >> > slave-based economies who left us their songs of victory. > > > >> > On 7 Nov, 13:36, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > One probably needs a critical eye to spot why this paper is itself > > >> > > bullshit rigsy - but you seem to have got there from the summary > > >> > > above. Judging from the political adverts from the US elections we > > >> > > sampled here last night BS has won. Polish friends in the Warsaw > > >> > > Pact > > >> > > days, skilled in Soviet hogwash, were well aware the stuff was just > > >> > > for public consumption and that the World Bank guff I was supposed to > > >> > > disseminate just our form of it. They were quick to see the > > >> > > apparatchiks were becoming the entrepreneurchicks following the > > >> > > collapse of the wall. > > >> > > In Britain one of our MPs is going on an Aussie TV show of the kind > > >> > > where they dump you in the jungle with custard and hornets in your > > >> > > hair. There is much protest concerning her triviality. My own view > > >> > > is we should develop a control experiment from this and find out how > > >> > > many we can dispose of in this manner before we notice an adverse > > >> > > effect. As an added torture we could perhaps throw this philosopher > > >> > > in the mix! > > > >> > > On 7 Nov, 11:19, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > I suspect the ghost of Diogenes the Cynic is still looking for an > > >> > > > honest man. > > > >> > > > On Nov 5, 10:41 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > This from an academic article sent to me on 'bullshit attacks'. > > > >> > > > > Walter Carnielli > > >> > > > > We want to argue that falling into a specific deceptive reasoning > > >> > > > > which > > >> > > > > we call bullshit attack is not anything irrational from our > > >> > > > > side, but > > >> > > > > rather a > > >> > > > > rational response from an opponent maneuver, and that the entire > > >> > > > > episode can > > >> > > > > bee seen as a game, where logic and a certain principle of > > >> > > > > rational > > >> > > > > discussion > > >> > > > > play essential roles. Indeed, an opponent may act coercively > > >> > > > > into our > > >> > > > > reasoning > > >> > > > > process by using irrelevant facts or assertions, and by telling > > >> > > > > half > > >> > > > > truths in such > > >> > > > > a way that we feel forced to “complete” the story in a way that > > >> > > > > interest the > > >> > > > > opponent, perhaps contrary to our own interests. > > >> > > > > Even to define what is “to deceive” is not easy. The act of > > >> > > > > deceiving > > >> > > > > would > > >> > > > > have to be intentional, and to involve causing a belief - but > > >> > > > > what > > >> > > > > about acting > > >> > > > > as to prevent a false belief to be revised by the other person? > > >> > > > > And > > >> > to > > >> > > > > act as to > > >> > > > > make the other person to cease to have a true belief, or to > > >> > > > > prevent > > >> > > > > the person > > >> > > > > from acquiring a certain true belief? Of course one can deceive > > >> > > > > by > > >> > > > > gestures, by > > >> > > > > irony and also by just making questions. So there seems to be no > > >> > > > > universally > > >> > > > > accepted definition of “deceiving” yet; we assume currently a > > >> > > > > definition stated > > >> > > > > in [17]: > > >> > > > > To deceive = to intentionally cause another person to have or > > >> > > > > continue > > >> > > > > to have a false belief that is truly believed to be false by the > > >> > > > > person > > >> > > > > intentionally causing the false belief by bringing about > > >> > > > > evidence on > > >> > > > > the basis of which the other person has or continues to have that > > >> > > > > false > > >> > > > > belief. > > > >> > > > > Summary. This paper intends to open a discussion on how certain > > >> > > > > dangerous kinds > > >> > > > > of deceptive reasoning can be defined, in which way it is > > >> > > > > achieved in > > >> > > > > a discussion, > > >> > > > > and which would be the strategies for defense against such > > >> > > > > deceptive > > >> > > > > attacks on the > > >> > > > > light of some principles accepted as fundamental for rationality > > >> > > > > and > > >> > > > > logic. > > > >> > > > > Last lines (after much on Tarski and Godel) - Starting from the > > >> > > > > understanding that what I am proposing here is not to use > > >> > > > > methods of > > >> > > > > formal or informal logic to analyze fallacies, but to pay due > > >> > > > > attention to principles that also affect logic, discerning the > > >> > reasons > > >> > > > > why we > > >> > > > > succumb under a bullshit attack may help us to understand why we > > >> > > > > commit > > >> > > > > other illusions of reasoning. > > > >> > > > > Anyone interested can get the full paper from me by email. > > > >> > > > > On a Theoretical Analysis of Deceiving: How > > >> > > > > to Resist a Bullshit Attack > > >> > > > > Walter Carnielli > > >> > > > > GTAL/CLE and Department of Philosophy–IFCH, State University of > > >> > > > > Campinas, > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > > >> > --- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > |_D Allan > > > Life is for moral, ethical and > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
