Those who believe in bondage and don't want to do something excuse themselves with the ' govern mentality ' but the very same people exhibit aggressive action in other situations. Similarly others who believe in free-will show a marked passivity in particular areas and easily rationalize inaction.
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:22 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't think it would be an equal state rigs - just fairer. We don't > really know. RP defines "I" and there are alternatives such as > "govern-mentality" which allow the I to be bound. I doubt, given > animal biology we are even born free. I don't drink much these days - > recovery time is too long! > > On Dec 19, 7:19 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> I tend to agree with your last paragraph. The best recourse is to use >> your boundaries instead of being trapped by them; you also might find >> that most individuals would not want to live in such an equal state >> anyway. >> >> On Dec 18, 7:34 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > The Test ended as a boring draw and thus series win for England. One >> > would not have thought this possible when England went down in the >> > first Test - so the series win was a miracle of sorts - partly of >> > international organisation as few of our men were born in England. If >> > I'm interested at all these days it's to do with 'the truer word never >> > spoke' and our bondage to farcical ideologies of not being able to do >> > things. I played in two or three losing teams that grew to take on >> > all-comers without much change in personnel. There were no >> > inspirational speeches (well there were - but we laughed at them). >> > Winning in sport isn't much of a social model as it just changes who >> > the losers are - but we could make something of the spirit of 'can do' >> > in place of current sweeping of real issues under the carpet. I'm not >> > talking of a 'jock mentality' - that was common in the losing stage - >> > it's more to do with recognising how to contribute to the team and how >> > to do those things that facilitate others, feel good about that and >> > encourage it. >> >> > Part of our bondage is to do with what we consider winning to be and >> > managerial clowns who want to inspire their companies to be the >> > Manchester United of their commercial sector. This misses the fact >> > that we'd be much better off with loads more people playing soccer >> > instead of watching vastly over-paid freaks who have never done a >> > day's work in their lives. The story is always the same - 'global >> > competition' means we have to pay vast fees to have Man U, the >> > banksters, coffee shops and hotel chains who evade tax (legally >> > because we are such mugs - and in massive contradiction to espoused >> > ideologies and what is imposed on the rest of us) - or the players >> > will go elsewhere - and we are so useless we can't sell better coffee >> > and butties than Starwucks. The first bondage we can't look in the >> > eye is libidinal - forced on us because we can't restrain the >> > libidinal economy. This is essentially bondage to simplistic notions >> > of cause and effect and not seeing the wood for the trees. We have >> > police and law because of bandits - yet can't apply this reasoning to >> > financial services and are subject to nightmare threats made real >> > through income deprivation, poverty and unemployment. It's time (one >> > can only say with a hollow laugh) for change. >> >> > Anyone who fears the social engineering that might allow cultural >> > change for the better should not speak before looking at how we are >> > being engineered by the current financial system and the way it places >> > ownership and rents into a few hands - liberalism is, in fact, massive >> > engineering and a politburo rather than a free alternative. I'll >> > believe we have an attempt at freedom when I can choose to work in a >> > cooperative zone in which we are all in control of the means of >> > production and wealth distribution. Liberalism is so scared of this >> > we aren't allowed to try. We are allowed spiritual reflection - >> > presumably because this is known to be fruitless. >> >> > On Dec 16, 1:23 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > I suspect we pre-select defeat in >> > > believing the condition impossible. >> >> > > A truer word was never spoke. I suspect we often do, by rote, never >> > > knowing the limitations we, ourselves, impose in the process. >> >> > > On Dec 16, 3:19 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > Slip and Gruff are missed. Watched a Cronenberg film on Jung and >> > > > Freud last night - a bit limper than Japanese knots Don. Here we are >> > > > clinging to a rock with no real idea of where we come from, >> > > > constrained by the speed of light (owing to the role of momentum in E >> > > > = mc2 and right angled triangles) and a biology that collapses in the >> > > > absence of gravity, has us slaves to genes and algorithms of an >> > > > information world that arises when chemicals get together. The >> > > > insights of science debunk myths of origin for what they are - myths - >> > > > and yet knowing the chains of illusion seems little help in getting >> > > > beyond them. We could be happier not knowing in the ignorant bliss >> > > > that waits for mass extinction not knowing it comes. Politicians can >> > > > still get away with urging us to be proud of our nations (of the >> > > > Britain and USA using concentration camps in Southern Africa and the >> > > > Philippines around 1900 - the vile murders in the Congo originating in >> > > > Berlin meetings in the 1860s that continue today in imperialism's >> > > > changed form?). We are bound by needs to make livings - something >> > > > technology has probably rendered unnecessary but we are still kept in >> > > > ideological shackles as surely as women caged in black bags. >> >> > > > There has to be more than this RP. The spiritual turns with the >> > > > material and I'm not sure either has to 'come first'. England look >> > > > like winning the Test series in India. The game is now ultimately >> > > > dull with a day and a half to go and all of India praying for a >> > > > miracle. I suspect rigsy and I would be plotting sight-seeing on our >> > > > way out through the beer tent and cooling gin had she been unwise >> > > > enough to venture forth to sample the cultural delights of such old >> > > > colonialism! We'd just be hearing the Indian roar as the ball starts >> > > > to spin and the English captain is victim of a bad umpiring decision >> > > > not subject to technological review. We'd still leave - there is only >> > > > so much cricket one can force on friends. Relief from northern >> > > > hemisphere weather would be good though rigs. I sense we are waiting >> > > > for a cultural-spiritual miracle as likely as one on the flat pitch in >> > > > Nagpur. I suspect our bombardment with trivia is the problem Don. >> > > > Much as i can imagine us together in a heroic last wicket stand >> > > > thwarting the guile of India's spinners (the first ever Test was >> > > > between the USA and Canada so you have the pedigree!), I guess the >> > > > good guy is the one who changes light bulbs for his old neighbours. >> > > > What might we be without material bondage and with religion we could >> > > > believe in other than myth RP? I suspect we pre-select defeat in >> > > > believing the condition impossible. >> >> > > > On Dec 15, 3:57 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > I know just what you mean.. Eric Clapton is exciting to listen to >> > > > > Allan >> >> > > > > On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > ...and here I thought this was going to be a lesson in interesting >> > > > > > Japanese >> > > > > > knots. Maybe next time. i miss Slipdisc. >> >> > > > > > I am bound by my morals. Even though i may step outside these >> > > > > > boundaries >> > > > > > from time to time I generally feel bad about it and try to make >> > > > > > amends as >> > > > > > i'm capable. I WANT to be the good guy. Problem with kids >> > > > > > today(harrumph) is >> > > > > > they want to be bad boyzz. It's cooler. >> >> > > > > > The point on limitations is spot on. i hear a blistering solo from >> > > > > > Eric >> > > > > > Clapton and am spell bound. BB King I can do all day. Albert too. >> > > > > > Clapton >> > > > > > is WAAAY outta my league. I don't even try anymore. >> >> > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiNUZTyukC4 >> >> > > > > > dj >> >> > > > > > On Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:24:51 AM UTC-6, RP Singh wrote: >> >> > > > > >> Are we bound to see what we want to see? I am bound by Nature >> > > > > >> which >> > > > > >> consists of my body and brain and other individuals and the >> > > > > >> environment surrounding me. >> >> > > > > >> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 5:45 PM, andrew vecsey >> > > > > >> <[email protected]> >> > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > We are bounded by our limitations and desires. In the end we >> > > > > >> > can not see >> > > > > >> > all >> > > > > >> > there is to be seen and we see mainly what we want to see. >> >> > > > > >> > On Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:51:07 AM UTC+1, RP Singh >> > > > > >> > wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> It is I who see , I who hear, I who reason , imagine , >> > > > > >> >> understand ; and >> > > > > >> >> again it is I who am angry , loving , jealous , and I who act >> > > > > >> >> and >> > > > > >> >> react. So >> > > > > >> >> where is my bondage ??? >> >> > > > > >> > -- >> >> > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > -- >> > > > > ( >> > > > > ) >> > > > > |_D Allan >> >> > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> >> > > > > I am a Natural Airgunner - >> >> > > > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted text - >> >> > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > > --
