Okay promises to be interesting.. Allan On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:51 PM, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > We need you to ride shotgun, Allan! True, I would probably roll myself > up in Archy's woolly thinking like Cleopatra- esp. if he added some > silk. > > On Jan 16, 1:05 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> Personally Neil I do not think the four of you would be capable of >> making that type of evaluation. >> No offence taken ... every one listed is as bigoted to their own >> view as I am.. (",) >> Allan >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:51 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I'm a very woolly thinker - and part of the technology I want to see >> > would entail a bunch of us - say me, rigs, Gabs and James - being able >> > to decide on whether the public or private sector is 'better' (I >> > suspect we'd all say this depends on circumstances) without making the >> > question into some ideological contest - and then on to the world more >> > generally. I've no doubt we could all give examples and counter- >> > examples and suspect we'd find some consensus on not really being very >> > interested. What I really wonder is why such matters are contested >> > ideologically rather than being subject to transparent record. >> >> > On Jan 15, 10:32 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Didn't know you were a Papist rigs! Which changes about nothing - I >> >> was dragged up Proddy until I got Dad to write a note to school >> >> excusing me RE. I did my maths and English homework in the classes - >> >> still took the exams and came top twice - which rather suggests how >> >> useless classrooms can be. I think a great deal is recoverable from >> >> religion concerning practical democracy and the loss of decency and >> >> organic solidarity. >> >> I've been reading a lot of academic material on banking systems for >> >> some lectures, Most tell the story that what has been done since the >> >> crash have really done nothing - there's one >> >> athttp://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2132152(pdf >> >> downloads if anyone is interested) - and reading it is typically >> >> bleak. I've stopped the reading, partly because I have enough, but >> >> more because I'm depressed by how powerless it makes me feel. Rosanne >> >> Barr seemed the best presidential candidate to me. We need to get >> >> back to farming, building and making the planet a sensible collective. >> >> >> We used to try to teach the logic underlying various discipline - >> >> typically through learning artificial languages that demonstrate >> >> ambiguity lies in even simple constructs in ordinary languages. >> >> Tarski was usually key. One can dream of a machine that would do this >> >> in real time as politicians speak - but only dream. One can end up in >> >> such stuff as Chu sets - sadly not as easy as Casey Jones. What I >> >> could see in near-term would be a database that worked in near real- >> >> time that immediately produced facts that made politician's statements >> >> as ambiguous as they really are factually and identified rhetorical >> >> tricks as they spoke. Academic work in this area like discourse >> >> analysis is painfully slow. >> >> >> Tony Blair was a good orator - but now he looks the paradigm case of >> >> 'how do you know this man is lying - because his lips are moving' >> >> along with Nixon. The current technology is some combination of >> >> oratory, rhetoric and infotainment - perhaps even combined with >> >> education as discipline. I would want a technology that was very >> >> different, more transparent and honest - and I would see machine >> >> thinking as part of it all - in some areas of science we are fairly >> >> sure the machines are smarter than us already. I can think up some >> >> kind of 'mind-repository' as science fiction - Hawking is saying >> >> biological intelligence may be at the end of its evolutionary span. >> >> The Frankenstein and totalitarian elements always raise their heads - >> >> of course. >> >> >> Gordon Brown - the idiot who sold our gold reserves - used to say 'we >> >> must be proud of our British heritage' - but such is never said in >> >> the spirit of analysis of the good and the disasters. I'm pretty sure >> >> machines and software could show all our politicians now contest in >> >> such actually meaningless drivel. Some of us believe this already. I >> >> wonder if technology exposing such would generate space for the real >> >> dialogue? >> >> >> On 15 Jan, 12:14, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > It appears chimps are willing to share a banana fairly and we are >> >> > closely related- it's a start. (NPR or BBC) But also heard farmland >> >> > was selling for $10,000. an acre and discouraging young independent >> >> > farmers (which will lead to more agribusiness swallowing up the >> >> > land).//There is a very long history promoting power and wealth- as a >> >> > sign of worldly success and divine favor- not sure if there is any way >> >> > to abolish that notion- well illustrated by the top tiers of >> >> > socialists and communists- even religious groups.// To be a >> >> > conservative may mean you have something to conserve (from an old >> >> > deceased friend); conservatives reward themselves with their own >> >> > efforts while liberals reward everyone with other people's efforts >> >> > (thoughts while cooking-rigs). Politicians make endless promises to >> >> > the poor and middle class in order to secure their votes and stay in >> >> > office since they(politicians) become unfit for work in the real >> >> > world.//I think I wanted to be a good person rather than a rich person >> >> > but I was brainwashed by Catholicism...wasn't I?// >> >> >> > On Jan 14, 9:21 pm, James <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > There are a number of trade routes built into the rewards system >> >> > > though, >> >> > > for example a simple formula might be: >> >> >> > > Cities favor growth of tax base and expansion, attraction of >> >> > > prospective >> >> > > citizens and businesses might favor a financial institution over a >> >> > > private home builder, the contractor may get tax breaks through tricks >> >> > > between the bank and taxing authorities to greatly increase profits >> >> > > for >> >> > > everyone except the buyer. The financial institution rewards >> >> > > contractors >> >> > > and gains from relationships with all three and everyone has their >> >> > > hands >> >> > > in the others' pocket making gains from the buyer. The whole system is >> >> > > in the rewards game and it is designed to favor those who can leverage >> >> > > scale and the promise of a shared economic gain. >> >> >> > > My thinking is very in line with Andrew's on establishing a higher >> >> > > baseline, I think it would be a worthwhile investment in humanity. But >> >> > > it doesn't sound probable as long as we are addicted to perpetual >> >> > > growth >> >> > > schemes that rely on massive excess capacity and waste to prop up an >> >> > > increasingly top heavy infrastructure. >> >> >> > > Someone once said that an empty stomach doesn't make the best advisor >> >> > > for the future (or similarly rather). I think that cuts right to >> >> > > Neil's >> >> > > second brain (the enteric nervous system) that drives an an organism >> >> > > with primal survival motives, and that is the manipulation in play, I >> >> > > cannot imagine the promise of democracy seeing the light of day while >> >> > > higher cognitive functions such as navigating complex multidimensional >> >> > > environments (societies/states) to solve complex sociological >> >> > > challenges >> >> > > (lest we believe this is just about money, or at all?!) toward >> >> > > mutually >> >> > > beneficial outcomes. Unless I was blinded by the pie in the sky I had >> >> > > something along the lines of a just, healthy and productive society in >> >> > > mind when first learning about democracy. >> >> >> > > What I see is a large part of people's lives driven by fear, that >> >> > > primal >> >> > > second brain. I think it should piss us off that we could be far more >> >> > > productive if someone cared to put the infrastructure in place for our >> >> > > outputs to be recycled back into society to a larger and more integral >> >> > > extent, from lack of imagination and dominance of a culture of usury >> >> > > and >> >> > > isolation. We can invent money but not cure poverty? Who is driving >> >> > > the >> >> > > boat? (oh democracy, hmm).. >> >> >> > > Distribution of prestige and privilege in our society is as powerful >> >> > > today as it has been for a long time, how we pursue that I think will >> >> > > determine whether we fulfill the promise of democracy. The society we >> >> > > engineer will determine whether the activities of citizens resemble >> >> > > intelligent, caring, inspired beings or a mound of parasites and >> >> > > resource aggregating automata. Pardon the crude reductionism to an >> >> > > absurd dichotomy. >> >> >> > > The possibility of a better world, is it armament enough? Takes more >> >> > > than imagination, but really, what is it that separates us from the >> >> > > other animals?! >> >> >> > > On 1/14/2013 9:43 AM, archytas wrote: >> >> >> > > > In HE in the UK state school students marginally outperform those >> >> > > > from >> >> > > > private education - until they enter the job market. Social >> >> > > > mobility >> >> > > > between income groups has fallen substantially across the west. We >> >> > > > have lost a grip on the economic dynamic. Many economists believed >> >> > > > the rentier part of capitalism would wither away - much as Marx >> >> > > > thought the State would. What interests me is that we end up with >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > 'socialist state' either through 'revolution' or via a financial >> >> > > > system stacked in favour of sending money to the very rich who form >> >> > > > a >> >> > > > politburo of their own. My guess is we are trapped because we can't >> >> > > > change financialism and attitudes to work - through an underlying >> >> > > > fear >> >> > > > of freedom and lack of recognition this has to be structured in >> >> > > > such a >> >> > > > way there is no need to think much about it once we have something >> >> > > > decent in place. >> >> >> > > > On Jan 13, 2:01 pm, rigs<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > >> Regard the lilies of the field... >> >> >> > > >> In fairness, the US has its share/history of ex-pats. >> >> >> > > >> Debt has a greater earning potential than savings for financial >> >> > > >> instiutions. Living beyond one's means is promoted in various ways. >> >> > > >> America is the land of re-invention (social and >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > -- > > >
-- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. Of course I talk to myself, Sometimes I need expert advice.. --
