Didn't know you were a Papist rigs! Which changes about nothing - I was dragged up Proddy until I got Dad to write a note to school excusing me RE. I did my maths and English homework in the classes - still took the exams and came top twice - which rather suggests how useless classrooms can be. I think a great deal is recoverable from religion concerning practical democracy and the loss of decency and organic solidarity. I've been reading a lot of academic material on banking systems for some lectures, Most tell the story that what has been done since the crash have really done nothing - there's one at http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2132152 (pdf downloads if anyone is interested) - and reading it is typically bleak. I've stopped the reading, partly because I have enough, but more because I'm depressed by how powerless it makes me feel. Rosanne Barr seemed the best presidential candidate to me. We need to get back to farming, building and making the planet a sensible collective.
We used to try to teach the logic underlying various discipline - typically through learning artificial languages that demonstrate ambiguity lies in even simple constructs in ordinary languages. Tarski was usually key. One can dream of a machine that would do this in real time as politicians speak - but only dream. One can end up in such stuff as Chu sets - sadly not as easy as Casey Jones. What I could see in near-term would be a database that worked in near real- time that immediately produced facts that made politician's statements as ambiguous as they really are factually and identified rhetorical tricks as they spoke. Academic work in this area like discourse analysis is painfully slow. Tony Blair was a good orator - but now he looks the paradigm case of 'how do you know this man is lying - because his lips are moving' along with Nixon. The current technology is some combination of oratory, rhetoric and infotainment - perhaps even combined with education as discipline. I would want a technology that was very different, more transparent and honest - and I would see machine thinking as part of it all - in some areas of science we are fairly sure the machines are smarter than us already. I can think up some kind of 'mind-repository' as science fiction - Hawking is saying biological intelligence may be at the end of its evolutionary span. The Frankenstein and totalitarian elements always raise their heads - of course. Gordon Brown - the idiot who sold our gold reserves - used to say 'we must be proud of our British heritage' - but such is never said in the spirit of analysis of the good and the disasters. I'm pretty sure machines and software could show all our politicians now contest in such actually meaningless drivel. Some of us believe this already. I wonder if technology exposing such would generate space for the real dialogue? On 15 Jan, 12:14, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > It appears chimps are willing to share a banana fairly and we are > closely related- it's a start. (NPR or BBC) But also heard farmland > was selling for $10,000. an acre and discouraging young independent > farmers (which will lead to more agribusiness swallowing up the > land).//There is a very long history promoting power and wealth- as a > sign of worldly success and divine favor- not sure if there is any way > to abolish that notion- well illustrated by the top tiers of > socialists and communists- even religious groups.// To be a > conservative may mean you have something to conserve (from an old > deceased friend); conservatives reward themselves with their own > efforts while liberals reward everyone with other people's efforts > (thoughts while cooking-rigs). Politicians make endless promises to > the poor and middle class in order to secure their votes and stay in > office since they(politicians) become unfit for work in the real > world.//I think I wanted to be a good person rather than a rich person > but I was brainwashed by Catholicism...wasn't I?// > > On Jan 14, 9:21 pm, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > There are a number of trade routes built into the rewards system though, > > for example a simple formula might be: > > > Cities favor growth of tax base and expansion, attraction of prospective > > citizens and businesses might favor a financial institution over a > > private home builder, the contractor may get tax breaks through tricks > > between the bank and taxing authorities to greatly increase profits for > > everyone except the buyer. The financial institution rewards contractors > > and gains from relationships with all three and everyone has their hands > > in the others' pocket making gains from the buyer. The whole system is > > in the rewards game and it is designed to favor those who can leverage > > scale and the promise of a shared economic gain. > > > My thinking is very in line with Andrew's on establishing a higher > > baseline, I think it would be a worthwhile investment in humanity. But > > it doesn't sound probable as long as we are addicted to perpetual growth > > schemes that rely on massive excess capacity and waste to prop up an > > increasingly top heavy infrastructure. > > > Someone once said that an empty stomach doesn't make the best advisor > > for the future (or similarly rather). I think that cuts right to Neil's > > second brain (the enteric nervous system) that drives an an organism > > with primal survival motives, and that is the manipulation in play, I > > cannot imagine the promise of democracy seeing the light of day while > > higher cognitive functions such as navigating complex multidimensional > > environments (societies/states) to solve complex sociological challenges > > (lest we believe this is just about money, or at all?!) toward mutually > > beneficial outcomes. Unless I was blinded by the pie in the sky I had > > something along the lines of a just, healthy and productive society in > > mind when first learning about democracy. > > > What I see is a large part of people's lives driven by fear, that primal > > second brain. I think it should piss us off that we could be far more > > productive if someone cared to put the infrastructure in place for our > > outputs to be recycled back into society to a larger and more integral > > extent, from lack of imagination and dominance of a culture of usury and > > isolation. We can invent money but not cure poverty? Who is driving the > > boat? (oh democracy, hmm).. > > > Distribution of prestige and privilege in our society is as powerful > > today as it has been for a long time, how we pursue that I think will > > determine whether we fulfill the promise of democracy. The society we > > engineer will determine whether the activities of citizens resemble > > intelligent, caring, inspired beings or a mound of parasites and > > resource aggregating automata. Pardon the crude reductionism to an > > absurd dichotomy. > > > The possibility of a better world, is it armament enough? Takes more > > than imagination, but really, what is it that separates us from the > > other animals?! > > > On 1/14/2013 9:43 AM, archytas wrote: > > > > In HE in the UK state school students marginally outperform those from > > > private education - until they enter the job market. Social mobility > > > between income groups has fallen substantially across the west. We > > > have lost a grip on the economic dynamic. Many economists believed > > > the rentier part of capitalism would wither away - much as Marx > > > thought the State would. What interests me is that we end up with the > > > 'socialist state' either through 'revolution' or via a financial > > > system stacked in favour of sending money to the very rich who form a > > > politburo of their own. My guess is we are trapped because we can't > > > change financialism and attitudes to work - through an underlying fear > > > of freedom and lack of recognition this has to be structured in such a > > > way there is no need to think much about it once we have something > > > decent in place. > > > > On Jan 13, 2:01 pm, rigs<[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Regard the lilies of the field... > > > >> In fairness, the US has its share/history of ex-pats. > > > >> Debt has a greater earning potential than savings for financial > > >> instiutions. Living beyond one's means is promoted in various ways. > > >> America is the land of re-invention (social and geographic mobility). > > > >> Am partial to savory myself but my grand-daughters requested pies so > > >> pies they had. I do like something sweet maybe once a day.//My habits > > >> were influenced by my early years at boarding school- Sacred Heart > > >> Convent. Home was rather dramatic and chaotic while school and camp > > >> developed other rhythms. Am quite different from my mother or daughter > > >> in many ways but like many people I have tried out various "poses". Am > > >> only human, afterall. > > > >> On Jan 12, 7:54 am, archytas<[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> When I think about a technology solution I'm not much concerned with > > >>> the hardware and software. Most people who drive have very little > > >>> clue how vehicles work and even less about how they are made. What > > >>> I've been pondering for a long time is whether we can do something > > >>> similar for argument and fashion something we can 'drive'. The > > >>> spreadsheet is a bit of an example, along with databases. People get > > >>> fixated on numbers and techie stuff - and probably with the cruelty of > > >>> potential and real uses. There is an emancipatory potential. In > > >>> essence this is as simple as, say, me wanting to make a blueberry pie, > > >>> not knowing and being able to whistle-up help from rigs or the > > >>> 'cloud' (actually I don't like fruit pies). > > >>> Ancient Greeks (the Pyrrhonists) knew very different and almost > > >>> equally compelling argument could be made about almost anything. > > >>> Their 'solution' was a special state of mind involving suspended > > >>> judgement - but this relies on 'being clever' enough to achieve the > > >>> state of mind. In fact, argument is not of one form but several - > > >>> nine are usually considered and have rather different rules.Most > > >>> philosophic consideration assumes we argue fairly and politics makes > > >>> this a farce before we start. If we are serious about democracy we > > >>> have to consider ignorance and means round this other than our failed > > >>> educational systems. When I first taught finance a lot of the work > > >>> was in calculation and one mistake meant going through everything in > > >>> that bit of the system again. Such work is now done by the technology > > >>> and indeed the technology has enabled new work to be done - mostly > > >>> through its vast iterative speed. The big snags remain garbage in > > >>> garbage out, cheating and focus on deriving competitive advantage only > > >>> in the financial bottom line. What we need is technology that will > > >>> deliver access to embodied knowledge for us all - enabling very clever > > >>> solutions for generally not very clever people. This would involve a > > >>> transparency we have not previously achieved since we lived in small > > >>> groups and probably beyond this. At the moment we have financial > > >>> accounting no one can see through - try reading Wells Fargo's 2011 > > >>> annual report. I couldn't make sense of most bank reports without a > > >>> team of dozens and carte blanche investigation authority. > > > >>> I like the idea of 'sending brains' back to countries of origin rigs - > > >>> but can we really assume our establishment is really interested in > > >>> fixing the problems in any of them - much argument points to the > > >>> opposite including such as McJihad in which the US Empire uses Islam > > >>> to divide and rule - the literature here is vast. I agree the old > > >>> muscle man is mostly long gone (though around the world women do much > > >>> of the hard slog anyway - the insect worker gender is generally female > > >>> too) - indeed farming once made living conditions worse for the people > > >>> who had to do the work. > > > >>> We lack answers to incredibly simple questions such as how much work > > >>> it is reasonable to expect of an individual, what we can reasonably > > >>> allow in safeguarding the planet, how we might reasonably police the > > >>> world and so on. Pretty much every economist (Adam Smith, Richardo, > > >>> Marx, Ely, Veblen, Keynes) has questioned why we allow a rentier class > > >>> and suggested an extirpation of such. Why do we still have a very old > > >>> work ethic with all the helping technology around? How have massive > > >>> productivity gains 'led' to lower ages, more debt and so on? > > > >>> My guess is argument is a roadblock to changes we desperately need, > > >>> including the establishment of world peace - here who would develop > > >>> another country with a power elite of male > > ... > > read more » --
