When I think about a technology solution I'm not much concerned with the hardware and software. Most people who drive have very little clue how vehicles work and even less about how they are made. What I've been pondering for a long time is whether we can do something similar for argument and fashion something we can 'drive'. The spreadsheet is a bit of an example, along with databases. People get fixated on numbers and techie stuff - and probably with the cruelty of potential and real uses. There is an emancipatory potential. In essence this is as simple as, say, me wanting to make a blueberry pie, not knowing and being able to whistle-up help from rigs or the 'cloud' (actually I don't like fruit pies). Ancient Greeks (the Pyrrhonists) knew very different and almost equally compelling argument could be made about almost anything. Their 'solution' was a special state of mind involving suspended judgement - but this relies on 'being clever' enough to achieve the state of mind. In fact, argument is not of one form but several - nine are usually considered and have rather different rules.Most philosophic consideration assumes we argue fairly and politics makes this a farce before we start. If we are serious about democracy we have to consider ignorance and means round this other than our failed educational systems. When I first taught finance a lot of the work was in calculation and one mistake meant going through everything in that bit of the system again. Such work is now done by the technology and indeed the technology has enabled new work to be done - mostly through its vast iterative speed. The big snags remain garbage in garbage out, cheating and focus on deriving competitive advantage only in the financial bottom line. What we need is technology that will deliver access to embodied knowledge for us all - enabling very clever solutions for generally not very clever people. This would involve a transparency we have not previously achieved since we lived in small groups and probably beyond this. At the moment we have financial accounting no one can see through - try reading Wells Fargo's 2011 annual report. I couldn't make sense of most bank reports without a team of dozens and carte blanche investigation authority.
I like the idea of 'sending brains' back to countries of origin rigs - but can we really assume our establishment is really interested in fixing the problems in any of them - much argument points to the opposite including such as McJihad in which the US Empire uses Islam to divide and rule - the literature here is vast. I agree the old muscle man is mostly long gone (though around the world women do much of the hard slog anyway - the insect worker gender is generally female too) - indeed farming once made living conditions worse for the people who had to do the work. We lack answers to incredibly simple questions such as how much work it is reasonable to expect of an individual, what we can reasonably allow in safeguarding the planet, how we might reasonably police the world and so on. Pretty much every economist (Adam Smith, Richardo, Marx, Ely, Veblen, Keynes) has questioned why we allow a rentier class and suggested an extirpation of such. Why do we still have a very old work ethic with all the helping technology around? How have massive productivity gains 'led' to lower ages, more debt and so on? My guess is argument is a roadblock to changes we desperately need, including the establishment of world peace - here who would develop another country with a power elite of male zombies who need to black- bag women and who would come looking to extend their libidinal empire once our steel was beaten into plough-shares? What would motivation to work be in a world without want? I have a feeling we'd have to develop knowledge technology through practical projects - converting communities green, more sociable, self- sustaining - and this would require changes in attitudes to what investment is. On Jan 12, 12:28 pm, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > Why don't some of the brains that the USA has drained move back to > their home countries and fix them? I am thinking of those who withdrew > all their money and live like fat cats while their country collapses. > > On Jan 11, 3:27 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I may have to move back to Scotland to stay in the EU. Sad stuff, > > showing only we haven't moved on here. I see the French now have > > boots on the ground in Mali. > > > On Jan 11, 8:26 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > You see, you shouldn't have changed your proxy settings from Scottish to > > > English! > > > > Ah well, the American Empire is helping us out again, here it is in the > > > French language version:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSgIhU28B8. > > > Foreign affairs are being discussed after 46 minutes. > > > > 2013/1/11 archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > They won't let me watch your video in England Gabby. > > > > > On Jan 10, 2:04 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Life has already been a game of Monopoly! That's a major part of the > > > > > problem(s). > > > > > > I would implant the chip in another spot. > > > > > > You will have to address religious and cultural systems that promote > > > > > sexism, racism and ageism. > > > > > > On Jan 9, 2:36 pm, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > In my science fiction novel "A Short History of a Long Future - A > > > > Guide for > > > > > > New-man", I wrote a scenario that applies to this discussion. Before > > > > Allan > > > > > > starts to let off his gas, the "I" is not "me" and it IS a science > > > > > > fiction. Below is the relevant excerpt from my novel. > > > > > > > "One unexpected day the centralized data banks were infected with > > > > computer > > > > > > viruses that erased their entire data banks. The multiple backups of > > > > the > > > > > > last 10 years were also suddenly discovered to have been > > > > > > compromised. > > > > > > Overnight electronic data of all money was irretrievably wiped out. > > > > Money > > > > > > in all of its form and all its trace disappeared. The banks and > > > > > > their > > > > > > services shut down immediately and all flow of money seized. > > > > > > > I developed a device that measured mental and physical exertion done > > > > for > > > > > > doing a series of tasks. I developed a financial system that did not > > > > > > include banks. It was a decentralized system where everyone was his > > > > > > own > > > > > > bank. It was based on my device. This measurement device allowed > > > > > > money > > > > to > > > > > > be based not on gold, oil, or promises, but on human exertion. The > > > > amount > > > > > > of this new money was to be based on the number of users. There was > > > > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > no central governing point and the only regulation were in the > > > > algorithms > > > > > > governing the issuance of money and in the initial registration. It > > > > was a > > > > > > just-in-time system that issued just enough money at just the right > > > > time > > > > > > and place to just the right person to ensure educational and health > > > > well > > > > > > being. The system was to be open and algorithms were to be proposed > > > > and > > > > > > written by users themselves. > > > > > > > I also developed a workable replacement for the once existing > > > > centralized > > > > > > banks. It was a peer to peer networked system that allowed everyone > > > > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > his own bank. It was free to join with only one requirement. - you > > > > > > had > > > > to > > > > > > have a chip inserted into the forehead under the skin. The chip came > > > > with > > > > > > an account containing 1 million dollars to last you a lifetime and > > > > > > pay > > > > for > > > > > > your basic living needs. > > > > > > > All countries adopted the implantation of the chip as a basic human > > > > > > right. My system provided all the requirements that make money > > > > workable. > > > > > > It could not be counterfeited and could not be stolen or lost. It > > > > > > was > > > > based > > > > > > on a unique code signed with each person's unique biometric > > > > > > signature. > > > > It > > > > > > could be saved and it was always redeemable anywhere anytime > > > > automatically. > > > > > > > Everyone who wanted to work and get paid had to use his system which > > > > was > > > > > > implanted into the forehead. Everyone who wanted to buy anything > > > > > > had to > > > > > > have this implant as well. It acted as a electronic money bank > > > > account. To > > > > > > fill it you had to work as usual. You could invest your capital by > > > > buying > > > > > > company stocks. You gambled your investment betting to profit by > > > > > > buying > > > > > > into a hopefully successful venture but risking to lose it should > > > > > > the > > > > > > ventures fail. > > > > > > > Your inheritance was limited to family heirlooms and houses. Your > > > > > > total > > > > > > accumulated wealth was also limited to a certain amount > > > > > > guaranteeing a > > > > very > > > > > > high standard of living. Anything over this was redistributed back > > > > > > to > > > > the > > > > > > people who you got it from. You were rewarded for this contribution > > > > > > in > > > > the > > > > > > form of highly valued merit awards that came with valued > > > > prestige.There was > > > > > > no income tax but you paid a sales tax on all items you bought. > > > > > > Food, > > > > > > clothing and other living necessities were exempt from tax. Sales > > > > > > tax > > > > paid > > > > > > for all public facilities and services like government, roads, > > > > hospitals, > > > > > > schools, fire department and police. > > > > > > > Within a few months of offering the accounts, everyone wanted an > > > > implant. > > > > > > It was free, came with a start-up capital of $1,000,000, and gave > > > > > > you > > > > the > > > > > > promise of a secure future, and the hopes of becoming wealthy. For > > > > > > the > > > > > > skeptical there was an opt out possibility. Their accounts would be > > > > locked > > > > > > and after a year they would be able to re join and continue where > > > > > > they > > > > left > > > > > > off. By replacing banks and eliminating money speculation, poverty > > > > > > was > > > > > > greatly reduced world wide. Everyone became their own bank. Everyone > > > > became > > > > > > an account. > > > > > > > Accounts below the start-up capital could spend only a maximum of > > > > $2,000 a > > > > > > month on products and services. But could still invest a part in > > > > stocks. > > > > > > Accounts over the start-up capital could form public companies and > > > > > > sell > > > > > > company stocks. Accounts over $10,000,000 automatically overflowed > > > > > > to > > > > the > > > > > > accounts with the least capital and were duly credited with > > > > distinguished > > > > > > awards of achievement and merit. > > > > > > > A few people refused to become accounts and to have the implants > > > > because of > > > > > > religious beliefs. They usually lived out in the country and tried > > > > > > to > > > > live > > > > > > off the dying land. They believed that the implants were prophesied > > > > > > in > > > > > > their bible as the sign of the devil. Greed took on a new meaning > > > > > > for > > > > many. > > > > > > It was no longer desirable to have as much as you can but to give as > > > > much > > > > > > as you must and thus get as many merit points as you can. New aims > > > > > > and > > > > > > goals surfaced. Competition changed to cooperation. Many rich ended > > > > up to > > > > > > be great philanthropists. Life became like a game of Monopoly." > > > > > > > On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:16:47 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > > > > > > > The human world is in a mess. It's hard to express what is going > > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > My guess is we are being ruled by a small, unelected, hidden > > > > politburo > > > > > > > we could call banksters. I take this as metaphor, much as I would > > > > the > > > > > > > notion the rulers are alien lizards. I also guess they have > > > > > > > skewed > > > > > > > any dialogue we have to make it very difficult to identify the > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > problem we face through argument. This is more or less a 'Dr Who' > > > > > > > predicament, though I suspect it is the real one we face. > > > > > > > > Those of us who are democrats (small d) know the answer. We want > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > human world at peace and our institutions based on real democracy > > > > with > > > > > > > government as unobtrusive as possible in the lives of reasonable > > > > > > > individuals. This, sadly, is the easy bit. Even something as > > > > > > > easy > > > > as > > > > > > > this is potentially totalising and fascist. > > > > > > > > Much, of course, has been written on this, and my conclusion is > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > can't be helping much. My own country, Britain, has made some > > > > > > > kind > > > > of > > > > > > > decision to give up empire, but we clearly cling to the > > > > > > > coat-tails of > > > > > > > the USA through the dupes or war criminals we elect - or who know > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > secret case not made to us that justifies war and other rotten > > > > > > > policies. If I was capable of listing all the literature I've > > > > > > > read > > > > on > > > > > > > this matter I wouldn't finish until sometime after a week tomorrow > > > > and > > > > > > > I'm by no means a specialist. Even if the democratic parts of > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > literature is right, it doesn't convince me of any course of > > > > > > > action, > > > > > > > as almost none of it explains how we might lay down the arms of > > > > > > > the > > > > US > > > > > > > umbrella without giving up to something worse or simply as bad > > > > > > > run by > > > > > > > people less favourable to my ethnicity. > > > > > > > > My belief is we must change what dialogue and argument are to > > > > > > > address > > > > > > > a move to real, global democracy. We have new technology that > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > allow this, but currently it is being subsumed into the skewed > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > that has allowed domination through the ages. It could be that > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > technology would tell us we need the American Empire. I rather > > > > > > > hope > > > > > > > it would rather be a call to democratic arms and very substantial > > > > > > > changes in what we do and can be. Any suggestions as to what this > > ... > > read more » --
