As if socialism is not also an accounting system!!! It is possible for capitalism to be compassionate and altruistic versus enforcement with hidden motives.//We have not escaped the past either. You may still be eating grass porridge as oatmeal. :-)
On Jan 31, 7:30 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I like the divine right analogy rigs. I don't favour capitalism for > much the same reason. Much discussion of right and wrong is stuck in > a past we need to escape. Origin is difficult. Born a Scot I might > revere our heritage - but 3000 years ago 'we' were likely German > farmers eating 'grass porridge'. Capitalism broke up much of > feudalism, but I suspect it was no more than a revision of Domesday > Book accounting and labour exploitation. Much of what actually goes > on is not capitalism but the establishment of rents through financial > manipulations - essentially a control fraud by the rentier-class. > We've been had on a butty - and need more modern argument based on > what we know, facts shared in a common language. > There is a literature suggesting our environmental knowledge is now > important in moral decision-making I think we have missed a lot > before this. Current technology is good enough for us to create self- > sustaining communities and give up on empire. We need to re-evaluate > our morality against this. I don't see this leading to socialism and > any aim seems to me to be about considerably more freedom - from such > things as war, work ethics formed in times of shortage and need for > hard labour and so on. The Soviet empire was much like the Tsars it > replaced - we used to call the KGB 'Checkists' after the Tsar's secret > police. > I suspect capitalism - unless used as a pejorative - is little more > than an accounting system. The problem lies in its corruption. > People cheat and cheats like crimogenic systems that allow work in the > dark. The umpire in cricket is now redundant - machines are better. > We could have had a machine accounting system on a global basis by now > - instead machines play a bigger role in cheating. Capitalism with > fair accounting presents few problems except for losers in the > competition. In sport we have competitions that allow losers first > draft picks and our course there is no competition if one eradicates > the competition. Wigan's dominance of the Rugby League was truly > horrible - it was hard t turn up to watch knowing every other team > would lose. > The pathway to Hell is lined with good intentions Gabby - we are > scared of change. Does anyone now believe that rule by the Guardians > of future socialist paradise can be established to wither away? Or > that the rentiers will wither away as Keynes hoped? And are such > matters not the same coin, merely opposite sides? Capitalism has run > up a lot of debt - are we so sure of it we can do away with time- > honoured debt jubilee? Would it not make more sense to give away what > we have built already to the people, have something of a leveling and > start again with a new focus on sustainability? > The genuine capitalist firm treats finance as a cost - it is difficult > to see from this how the vast transactions of financial services are > not parasitic on such firms and all of us. The bubbles created cause > much misery and form part of a vast Ponzi scheme we have no need of. > Beyond this, capitalism is really assumed to be a dirty game of beggar > thy neighbour we are ahead in and need to stay ahead in or we'll lose > military edge (and so on). We end up justifying doing bad things for > the greater end and rationalising this as moral. > > On Jan 31, 9:14 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The way you contrast socialism and capitalism is like contrasting > > creationism versus evolutionism. And by the natural law that the fittest > > will survive you are right to have decided for the evolutionary view. > > > I don't think - and the exchange in this group has helped me a lot to see > > this clearer - we should forget how tempting the search for the right > > answers is. > > > 2013/1/31 rigs <[email protected]> > > > > I am a fan of capitalism. I consider Marxism and Fascism as an > > > extension of socialism which is an extension of divine rights,etc., > > > i.e. theft, redistribution of another's wealth and labor, weakening of > > > the body politic (a form of serfdom) which turns governments into > > > bloodsuckers via taxes and debt.//Do you think economics is a valid > > > science? Why, when it has flopped so many times.//We need production > > > and labor plus consumption so there is a need for immigrants into > > > white industrial countries to make up for the decline of white births > > > (55 million abortions plus birth control). But I wonder if illegals > > > will pay back taxes and bother to learn English. It might go smoother > > > if we learn Spanish and Europe learn Arabic.//Family can also hurt > > > people but sometimes that hurt teaches valuable lessons. It is easier > > > to leave some people and events to Heaven though it would probably > > > spell the end of the legal profession. > > > > On Jan 30, 4:56 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I'm not sure the audience is as wide as your estimate rigs. > > > > Technically I am hospitable to any theoretical view from marxism to > > > > fascism - though I tend to dislike theoretical views - and hospitable > > > > to Islamic theory/s in business analysis - and to guests in my > > > > classrooms from all backgrounds. This is easy enough - as easy as > > > > offering to put you up if you were travelling in the UK. The > > > > difficult bit is in reciprocity - here we might think of the Maussian > > > > concept of the gift and many examples in 'stoneage economics' - what > > > > is expect of a guest in return. One gives freely - a few nights stay > > > > is not given for a return of a few nights stay and so on - yet one > > > > does not generally keep giving to inhospitable guests. One can > > > > discuss racism yet not tolerate racists - but to brand people > > > > concerned their opportunities for homes and work are disappearing in > > > > immigration flows as racist who raise these issues with some hatred on > > > > the people taking them is also wrong (particularly if done by > > > > politically correct idiots whose homes and jobs are not under such > > > > threat). Hospitality is sometimes easy, sometimes very hard work, can > > > > be a treat or pain - but is always already reciprocal in intent even > > > > if no commodity exchange is meant. I prefer to be hospitable to you > > > > rigs than tolerant - tolerance has pratronising aspects - and this is > > > > my general approach to things intellectual. It's easy with you as I > > > > like what I hear. I have lost hospitality to politics. Left to typo > > > > as it hits the meaning better than the word I intended! > > > > > People hurt us Andrew. We hurt them. Some is intentional some not. > > > > Gossip is often vicious from the pub to academic cloister. > > > > Transactional analysis isn't a bad place to look at how rigs' > > > > "balanced score card" builds up in personal relationships - Eric > > > > Berne's 'Games People Play' is still. the best book. Only friends can > > > > generally hurt us as we come to expect better from them, value them > > > > and so on. Friendship is easily mimicked and sometimes that small > > > > thing you mention may reveal the charade. Sometimes we take things > > > > too hard and should just let an incident wash away. This can be > > > > particularly hard if you've been collecting brown stamps (been shit > > > > on) in too many recent encounters. I used to go to the pub every > > > > Friday to get rid of my collection - but this habit itself became a > > > > brown stamp. I'm not religious but there's lots in forgiveness and > > > > 'there but for the grace of god go I'. > > > > > On 29 Jan, 19:11, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Please define what you mean by "hospitality"- of the individual, the > > > > > group, nations. Thanks. :-) > > > > > > On Jan 29, 5:22 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I think the first consideration is hospitality rigs. > > > > > > > On Jan 29, 12:10 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > At least some had good intentions re empires- maybe that should be > > > > > > > noted. And I believe in good intentions, myself- don't you? It's > > > > > > > likely a project for those two columCouldns of thinking and > > > sorting. > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 6:41 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Good question Andrew - though we could wonder why most people > > > have > > > > > > > > rosy views of the US and British empires, pretty much against > > > the real > > > > > > > > history. > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 11:19 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Try being Pollyanna for a day and see how far you get. Or Dr. > > > Pangloss > > > > > > > > > ("Candide") > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 5:11 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Why do so many of us remember negative feelings easier than > > > positive ones. > > > > > > > > > > Pain over pleasure. Bad news over good news. Why does "bad" > > > overshadow > > > > > > > > > > "good", immorality over morality, despair over hope, > > > pessimism over > > > > > > > > > > optimism. Why does hate appear to be more powerful than > > > love? Why is greed > > > > > > > > > > louder than generosity. Why is destruction of war so much > > > faster than the > > > > > > > > > > building power of peace. Why can one little lie destroy a > > > lifetime of > > > > > > > > > > trust. Why are lies more influential than truth. It all > > > seems so one sided. > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > > > --- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to [email protected]. > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide > > > quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
