Me a director. . I don't know how good I would be. My preference has always been in the trenches. Chris' s expermental programis probably a good idea..there would need to be a lot of planning to be done.. that objective might be good one for the ME collective community to take on, seeing where it leads.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness Are you offering to be Director of Chris' experimental programme Allan? On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:05:07 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Experimentation requires direction. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > To: Minds-Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 7:13 AM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness > > *laughing* I don't know about "expert" as much as "willing to experiment". > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:11 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> So imagine us all as a jigsaw, each with a piece to contribute to the >> whole picture. Mean not to share - though when you run games with >> undergrads, the sharing penny usually only drops after you tell them it was >> responsible for their failure in the exercise. Smug solipsism rules. >> Though what a jigsaw might do with a full picture sounds a bit limiting, >> jigsaws not having consciousness unless made from Allan's rock. >> >> What, by the way, is the consciousness of a bunch of social spiders >> bringing down a bird for dinner? >> >> Chemicals affect consciousness - Chris is the expert on human >> experimentation here - in animals this is affected by parasites and >> chemicals. The rubber-masked aliens who rule this planet moved on from >> chemical control years ago and use the easier to deliver propaganda now. >> This has side effects, which is why Allan is eating rock as he slides down >> the glacier >> >> >> On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2:46:37 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >>> >>> When things are all perspective one wonders why we talk at all. Let the >>> baby grip the burning coal - it's all perspective. We have no right to do >>> that educational stuff. Nagel did the stuff on the rock in 1974, but chose >>> to ask us to imagine what it was to be a bat. I understand his class threw >>> themselves out of the nearest window and to go to a cave party. It was a >>> fourth floor lecture and none survived, owing to a miscalculation on the >>> speed of evolution in providing wings on the way down. I survived owing to >>> perspective. Say bat to me and I think cricket. >>> >>> What would consciousness be if each perspectivalist was aware they would >>> be taken from the hive and shot unless they couldn't convince the others of >>> their view? >>> >>> On Thursday, 29 January 2015 15:07:03 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> lol oh my gosh I in trouble.. >>>> Actually the roots of conciousness go way back RP .. like most things >>>> it really is a matter of perspective. My perspective of God as I >>>> understand him comes from my childhood and a series of psychotic episodes >>>> (none involving drugs) I chose to call spiritual experiences.. >>>> It is all a matter of perspective .. my personal understanding my >>>> perspective. >>>> >>>> Consciousness has many levels most is best guess just what we >>>> precieve.. there are more questions than answers maybe starting with just >>>> what is the consciousness of a rock.. take my Rock carried the weight a >>>> glacier as it dragged him down the mountain.. it shaped his character of >>>> strength as it wore him down to a mere 1.4 kgs I can only imagine his >>>> mass >>>> when his journey began. >>>> Just what is Rock's perspective on consciousness? >>>> >>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>> >>>> Allan , when you know so much about such things why don't you give a >>>> valid definition of the concept "Consciousness". And it was Chris who was >>>> calling it Mumbo Gumbo and not I. I think that I have given quite an >>>> honest >>>> definition of such a subjective concept as definitions go. It is upto >>>> others to give a better meaning. If I have started the thread it doesn't >>>> mean that I alone have to satisfy the group. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There are many many levels consciousness. As rock who knows all about >>>>> the long hard grind after carrying the weight of a glacier on his back. >>>>> Now >>>>> he passes his time quietly on my workbench. >>>>> Unfortunately the dictionary is the common starting point. From where >>>>> you have to begin building. Chris is right.. your definion is simply not >>>>> thought out or developed. Mumbo Gumbo does not cut it in an honest >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:00 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>>> >>>>> Allan , it is consciousness. What you are seeing the dictionary for is >>>>> something completely different. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:15 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That is a very possible reality.. the problem is the evil genie >>>>>> making us think we have consciousness would mean the evil woild have to >>>>>> possess the attributes he is making is think we possess. >>>>>> It us said more happened in the 1st second of creation than all the >>>>>> time has passed since. >>>>>> >>>>>> Commonly in the belief system the overall consciousness is refered to >>>>>> as God (or some variation of the name). Due to free will given to all >>>>>> souls >>>>>> and beings the conciousness is ever expanding like the rest of the >>>>>> ùniverse >>>>>> demonstrates.. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for a common definition one needs to turn to a dictionary. >>>>>> CONSCIENTIOUSNESS >>>>>> >>>>>> noun (uncountable) >>>>>> • The state or characteristic of being conscientious. >>>>>> >>>>>> CONSCIENTIOUS >>>>>> >>>>>> adjective >>>>>> • Thorough, careful, or vigilant; implies a desire to do a task well. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 5:58 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>>>> >>>>>> We may have no consciousness and an evil genie might be making us >>>>>> think we have. I find inferred consciousness is easily removed by a >>>>>> heavy >>>>>> blow with a pick-axe handle. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:10:05 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Consciousness in others is inferred and not known or proved so it >>>>>>> might be that even atoms of elements have consciousness. I cannot even >>>>>>> prove that you have consciousness it is merely inferred that you have >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why do we have to be satisfied with your explanation when we >>>>>>>> haven't even determined what that means? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You began a thread called consciousness, and then won't even take >>>>>>>> the first steps to try to establish a common ground on the idea? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let's start with the simple question: do you believe plants have >>>>>>>> consciousness? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:18 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think you will get an answer to this in the near future >>>>>>>>> and maybe not in your lifetime , and so we have to be satisfied with >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> explanation -- it is an attribute of life , a real one , and not >>>>>>>>> jumbled up. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Moogle-de-poogledy is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>>>> description. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do you see why that's not an effective line of conversation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is conciousness? Do plants have it? Does it require >>>>>>>>>> sentience? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:10 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Consciousness is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>>>>> description. Without consciousness there would have been no life , >>>>>>>>>>> and so >>>>>>>>>>> it is life itself. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just so we're all on the same page, can you go ahead and define >>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what a consciousness is? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:05 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose there had been no consciousness and the entire world >>>>>>>>>>>>> had been there but all unconscious , what would be the Truth? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just death , >>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing else. Consciousness is what makes life , a proof that >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>>>>>>> something which exists , Existence itself and not death. Look at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the stars >>>>>>>>>>>>> , the solar system , if it had self-direction where would we be? >>>>>>>>>>>>> It all >>>>>>>>>>>>> obeys laws and that is the reason for order in the universe and >>>>>>>>>>>>> not chaos. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What would humanity have been if we were not bound by our nature >>>>>>>>>>>>> , no laws >>>>>>>>>>>>> of biology , psychology , etc. , no predictability , no comfort >>>>>>>>>>>>> that we >>>>>>>>>>>>> would return to our homes at night ,no assurance that we would >>>>>>>>>>>>> return home >>>>>>>>>>>>> from work . Unpredictability is still there but it is minor , >>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly there >>>>>>>>>>>>> is satisfaction and assurance of well-being. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
