The Avatar in the Hindu sense is a person with a special connect to God. Pretty simple.. noy of the science or movie concept.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness My physics is only layman stuff, though I feel some religious connections in it Allan. Biology is currently into a framework of co-evolution that can sound like various 'battles in heaven' stories. a sort of arms' race. I can say a lot of experiments that work and give us good explanations leave me with questions that might be put as 'where and how is consciousness outside me operating'. 'Spartacus' ants that rebel against the brood parasite by killing their young are dooming themselves, yet helping their own species. We have some idea of the chemicals involved - yet what of the inter-connectedness of it all? I generally don't like religion - but what bit of it would I mean, as the term is as subject to multiple meaning as consciousness? Science may be some kind of avatar in Allan's sense. We are about to allow so-called three-person babies in the UK. The work concerns women who pass on lethal and disabling mitochondrial genes. Let's say Jane has these and thus can't have healthy children. Now she could have an egg fertilised by her partner and placed in a cell from a second woman without the mitochondrial problems. The vast majority of any offspring would genetically come from the parents, with a little from the lovely donor and passed on to future generations. I prefer the science avatar in such decision making. Criticism from our two main churches is actually rather reasonable - is it safe, do we really know what we are doing - a long way from some of the vile anti-contraception and abortion stuff around that seeks to make feminism a kind of evil mediated against life. But surely we don't want cranky men wearing skirts and swinging incense making these decisions? RP is a bit of an avatar on peace, Gabby and Molly in different ways (at least to me). Entanglement resolution might give us more idea on how ideas themselves come about, what the role of such sweeping stories as Jesus and the rest is. Argument often seems to me to be rather like sitting down talking sweet things on peace with Genghis Khan on the other side of the river. We have to make avatars work where they don't, perhaps by better holographic projection more aware of competing and cooperative forces. Questions of our own role in creation are involved. Thoughts seem to have no substance, yet arise in it. In short, help me out someone! On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 6:48:06 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Could quantum entanglement explain avatars like Jesus, Buddha and others? > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness > > All sorts of quantum mysteries remain unsatisfactorily resolved, but maybe > the rest would succumb if entanglement does. Entanglement occurs in systems > with widely separated parts that share a common history; a measurement of > one of the parts reveals what you will find out when you measure its > distant relative. Entanglement is a fact of nature, well-established by > experiment. It suggests that time and space do not constrain quantum > phenomena the way they do ordinary human activity. Among the latest > intriguing aspects of entanglement to be studied involves black holes. It > seems that black holes can be entangled, which apparently is equivalent to > their being connected by a wormhole. Related work suggests that space, time > and gravity are all part of a vast quantum entanglement network. Since both > the evolution of networks and quantum entanglement fit nicely into game > theory, solving all sorts of mysteries might boil down to viewing the world > from a game-theoretical perspective. But maybe that will still be too hard > for human brains — it might take advanced artificial intelligence, which, > in turn, might be created with the help of some version of quantum game > theory. > > In M-theory we *are* the shadows on Plato's famous wall. The `room' is > some larger, five-dimensional spacetime and our four-dimensional world is > just the boundary of this larger space. If we try to move away from the > wall, we are moving into an extra dimension of space - a fifth dimension. > In fact, people have recently been trying to think of ways in which we > might actually experimentally `probe' this fifth dimension. > > http://arxiv.org/abs/1407.6552 > > Looking in perspective, the historical development of tensor network > methods has followed different periods. One could talk of an initial > “statistical mechanics” era underpinned by results in exactly solvable > models around the 60’s and 70’s. After that period we could say that a > “DMRG era” started in the 90’s with the explosion of White’s DMRG for 1d > systems and subsequent applications. Later on, around 2000’s one could talk > about the advent of a “quantum information era” with the many results on > many-body entanglement and further TN developments. As for today, one > could perhaps talk about a new “quantum gravity era” of TNs that is just > starting. In fact, it looks like important physical objects, such as curved > space-times and quantum Hamiltonians, emerge naturally from entanglement in > TN states via holography. > > I don't know if anyone will have read this far. Gabby's Theorem of > logical dogs chasing their tails will appeal more to some. Consciousness > without such complex maths as tensors may be preventing us being conscious > of the universe of shadows we actually walk in. We may not recognise > ourselves in this 'mirror' and be as self-aware as we think a dog is when > it doesn't recognise itself in one. > > On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 10:40:27 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >> >> Are you offering to be Director of Chris' experimental programme Allan? >> >> On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:05:07 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>> Experimentation requires direction. >>> >>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >>> To: Minds-Eye <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 7:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>> >>> *laughing* I don't know about "expert" as much as "willing to >>> experiment". >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:11 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> So imagine us all as a jigsaw, each with a piece to contribute to the >>>> whole picture. Mean not to share - though when you run games with >>>> undergrads, the sharing penny usually only drops after you tell them it >>>> was >>>> responsible for their failure in the exercise. Smug solipsism rules. >>>> Though what a jigsaw might do with a full picture sounds a bit limiting, >>>> jigsaws not having consciousness unless made from Allan's rock. >>>> >>>> What, by the way, is the consciousness of a bunch of social spiders >>>> bringing down a bird for dinner? >>>> >>>> Chemicals affect consciousness - Chris is the expert on human >>>> experimentation here - in animals this is affected by parasites and >>>> chemicals. The rubber-masked aliens who rule this planet moved on from >>>> chemical control years ago and use the easier to deliver propaganda now. >>>> This has side effects, which is why Allan is eating rock as he slides down >>>> the glacier >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2:46:37 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> When things are all perspective one wonders why we talk at all. Let >>>>> the baby grip the burning coal - it's all perspective. We have no right >>>>> to >>>>> do that educational stuff. Nagel did the stuff on the rock in 1974, but >>>>> chose to ask us to imagine what it was to be a bat. I understand his >>>>> class >>>>> threw themselves out of the nearest window and to go to a cave party. It >>>>> was a fourth floor lecture and none survived, owing to a miscalculation >>>>> on >>>>> the speed of evolution in providing wings on the way down. I survived >>>>> owing to perspective. Say bat to me and I think cricket. >>>>> >>>>> What would consciousness be if each perspectivalist was aware they >>>>> would be taken from the hive and shot unless they couldn't convince the >>>>> others of their view? >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, 29 January 2015 15:07:03 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> lol oh my gosh I in trouble.. >>>>>> Actually the roots of conciousness go way back RP .. like most >>>>>> things it really is a matter of perspective. My perspective of God as I >>>>>> understand him comes from my childhood and a series of psychotic >>>>>> episodes >>>>>> (none involving drugs) I chose to call spiritual experiences.. >>>>>> It is all a matter of perspective .. my personal understanding my >>>>>> perspective. >>>>>> >>>>>> Consciousness has many levels most is best guess just what we >>>>>> precieve.. there are more questions than answers maybe starting with >>>>>> just >>>>>> what is the consciousness of a rock.. take my Rock carried the weight a >>>>>> glacier as it dragged him down the mountain.. it shaped his character of >>>>>> strength as it wore him down to a mere 1.4 kgs I can only imagine his >>>>>> mass >>>>>> when his journey began. >>>>>> Just what is Rock's perspective on consciousness? >>>>>> >>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:11 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>>>> >>>>>> Allan , when you know so much about such things why don't you give a >>>>>> valid definition of the concept "Consciousness". And it was Chris who >>>>>> was >>>>>> calling it Mumbo Gumbo and not I. I think that I have given quite an >>>>>> honest >>>>>> definition of such a subjective concept as definitions go. It is upto >>>>>> others to give a better meaning. If I have started the thread it doesn't >>>>>> mean that I alone have to satisfy the group. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There are many many levels consciousness. As rock who knows all >>>>>>> about the long hard grind after carrying the weight of a glacier on his >>>>>>> back. Now he passes his time quietly on my workbench. >>>>>>> Unfortunately the dictionary is the common starting point. From >>>>>>> where you have to begin building. Chris is right.. your definion is >>>>>>> simply >>>>>>> not thought out or developed. Mumbo Gumbo does not cut it in an honest >>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:00 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Allan , it is consciousness. What you are seeing the dictionary for >>>>>>> is something completely different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:15 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is a very possible reality.. the problem is the evil genie >>>>>>>> making us think we have consciousness would mean the evil woild have >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> possess the attributes he is making is think we possess. >>>>>>>> It us said more happened in the 1st second of creation than all the >>>>>>>> time has passed since. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Commonly in the belief system the overall consciousness is refered >>>>>>>> to as God (or some variation of the name). Due to free will given to >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> souls and beings the conciousness is ever expanding like the rest of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> ùniverse demonstrates.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for a common definition one needs to turn to a dictionary. >>>>>>>> CONSCIENTIOUSNESS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> noun (uncountable) >>>>>>>> • The state or characteristic of being conscientious. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CONSCIENTIOUS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> adjective >>>>>>>> • Thorough, careful, or vigilant; implies a desire to do a task >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 5:58 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We may have no consciousness and an evil genie might be making us >>>>>>>> think we have. I find inferred consciousness is easily removed by a >>>>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>> blow with a pick-axe handle. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:10:05 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Consciousness in others is inferred and not known or proved so it >>>>>>>>> might be that even atoms of elements have consciousness. I cannot >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> prove that you have consciousness it is merely inferred that you have >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why do we have to be satisfied with your explanation when we >>>>>>>>>> haven't even determined what that means? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You began a thread called consciousness, and then won't even take >>>>>>>>>> the first steps to try to establish a common ground on the idea? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let's start with the simple question: do you believe plants have >>>>>>>>>> consciousness? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:18 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you will get an answer to this in the near future >>>>>>>>>>> and maybe not in your lifetime , and so we have to be satisfied >>>>>>>>>>> with my >>>>>>>>>>> explanation -- it is an attribute of life , a real one , and not >>>>>>>>>>> jumbled up. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Moogle-de-poogledy is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>>>>>> description. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see why that's not an effective line of conversation? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What is conciousness? Do plants have it? Does it require >>>>>>>>>>>> sentience? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:10 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Consciousness is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>>>>>>> description. Without consciousness there would have been no life >>>>>>>>>>>>> , and so >>>>>>>>>>>>> it is life itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just so we're all on the same page, can you go ahead and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> define exactly what a consciousness is? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:05 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose there had been no consciousness and the entire world >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had been there but all unconscious , what would be the Truth? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just death , >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing else. Consciousness is what makes life , a proof that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something which exists , Existence itself and not death. Look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the stars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> , the solar system , if it had self-direction where would we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be? It all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obeys laws and that is the reason for order in the universe and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not chaos. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would humanity have been if we were not bound by our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature , no laws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of biology , psychology , etc. , no predictability , no comfort >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would return to our homes at night ,no assurance that we would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from work . Unpredictability is still there but it is minor , >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is satisfaction and assurance of well-being. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > 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