Where have I been rude to Molly can anyone tell me, it was just a clash of viewpoints and in discussions you have to come out strongly which both of us did. If there was sarcasm it was from both sides, and in discussions in the modern world chivalry won't do. This is an online conversation and most of the time you don't even realize that you are talking to a lady. So, Neil, will you point out to me where I was rude?
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:02 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, now we know Molly is just regressing to a foetal state on the > 'basis' on 9 LSD case studies, we can safely dismiss mysticism and become > slaves of RP's non-mystic unconscious god, naively suffering misery and > euphoria concerning achievements not ours. This is science but not as we > know it Jim. > > I'm off for an adult conversation with Charlie Brown. Doesn't Lucy do > some character assassination psychoanalysis? The mystic bit is not in the > bickering. It would concern the superordinate, not dropping concrete block > absolutes as the only answer to everything.. > > > On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 6:37:11 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > >> RP even your Hindu say there is a soul. You are saying it does not exist. >> Which is right? >> I know I have a soul it is not a best guess as your statements are. I >> know God is real far beyond best guess.. Your reality is nothing more than >> best guess of what you think you have seen. >> Do you know what I have experienced to the point you can exclude my >> experiences as invalid dismissing them with the wave of your hand claiming >> superior knowledge, which to me is little more than a guess. >> I can understand your point of view and how you arrived at your >> conclusion including why you feel they are valid.. From your perspective >> they are valid. >> >> The problem is you are only in possessions of partial perspective. Now >> the real question is can you truly understand the perspective of others. >> Fortunately your perspective does not effect my soul or the souls of >> others. Each soul is responsible for only it's perspective. It is a matter >> of free will. Sorry but I did not forget that to you free will does not >> exist. Sadly apparently you have already made your choice. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 6:25 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >> >> Man easily accepts what is appealing and that is why people believe in an >> after-life. It is the survival instinct that stops us from accepting what >> is evident and obvious. Death is certain yet we escape it by taking on the >> non-dual perspective, but we are far from the non-dual and always in >> duality. It is not the case of one Molly but thousands of others talking >> about all-in-one and one-in-all and a non-dual perspective. I don't think >> that they even have an idea of what is non-dual, taking an experience of >> awareness to be the absolute state. >> My view might be disturbing because death is certainly so, but you cannot >> escape it by imagining to be the non-dual. We are always responsible >> people, yet we are fettered by bonds not recognizable as such, and so the >> arrogance and depression. Truth remains what it is and yet we find it >> painful, so what else but spirituality to cloak it in just to have a >> delusion of immortality. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:03 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I don't take you any other way RP than straight. One must bend in the >> wind from time to time. I have known nuns be a bride of god one day and >> have given it up the next. Millions have converted with changes in >> empire. Most religionists keep the religion they were born with, >> suggesting thought has little to do with it. We might envisage 'Molly' as >> a good Islamic girl and so on if born in another culture - some are so >> racist they can't envision such - though I would have another explanation >> of this particular Molly and wouldn't want to bother with explanation at >> all. I doubt you can escape superiority by essentialist biological claims >> about being a slave of nature, something you are anyway not. Now you have >> supernatural agents working in the world instead of responsible people, who >> can now only feel under delusion. >> >> Mysticism is all over the place in history and science. I don't know >> whether I want more of it or to understand how to get rid of it (as in >> constructor theory and rainbow gravity). I 'speak' to machines that have >> produced mystic (to me) outcomes that prove right. Some may think this >> deluded, but lack both my maths and the better stuff coming from the >> smarter machine. I doubt we are ever dual so non-dual is irrelevant. At >> least Molly isn't turning us all into slaves of a god so cruel that we get >> to feel shit or smug instead of at peace as robots on the hamster wheel of >> fatalism. Even Xtianity is more appealing than this nightmare of yours RP >> - no wonder you want an unconscious end. >> >> Science is very sceptical - far more so than most can take - but one does >> not have to detach spiritual comfort or discomfort or what religious >> processing might be. Admittedly, most of what I hear and read on religion >> and spirituality is bunk or old hat. But if it works on anyone I want to >> know why - and if the products are good like machine output who cares? >> >> >> On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 2:03:36 PM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> I like to be straight forward but am not abusive, If I talk about other >> people it is not to hurt but rather to make them realize that in my opinion >> they are just rationalizing experiences into what they are not. What is the >> non-dual perspective? How can you be infinite and finite at the same time? >> I am either me, a man, or God. I cannot be both. The world is deterministic >> or free, it cannot be both, but a man can be free because he doesn't know >> the hidden bondage and acts according to impulses or reason and yet be an >> instrument in the hands of Nature. Nature is such that it acts from within >> the organism and from outside it, but ultimately it is Nature which acts >> and man is just the agent. I do not claim that my viewpoint raises me above >> others because I know that it is not mine but one passed down to me by >> Nature. Everyone is a slave of nature and nature is such that man becomes >> attached to the work he does and becomes arrogant or depressed because of >> the belief that it is he who acts. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:05 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The genetic predispositions tend to have some kind of use. Some of these >> are very crude, like sickle cell disease as a counter to malaria, or >> diabetes in response to famine. Some are permanently disposed to delusion >> and I really believe we live in a control fraud. mostly chemical in origin >> like enslaved ants. Mystics pump out enslaving soma but may also be in >> pursuit of freedom. Marx had some good ideas on freedom, but was also >> stuck in the gas of racism and economic determinism - the poverty of >> historicism and its chronic stupidity. You wouldn't think much of me >> telling you what to do on the basis of my 'superior skin colour' like some >> of my worst ancestors RP (though I'm a fourth generation union man on my >> fathers side). We cannot go around telling people what they should have >> done, yet in a way we also should say we think they are wrong. >> >> I don't read much mystic stuff because it is so quickly boring and >> obviously copied - but this is true of almost all presstitute news.and >> soi-called entertainment. I skip sex and action sequences in film because >> they are boring copies of copies. How would we decide on what should be >> taught? Thousands of serious experts have got this as badly wrong as >> religionists who think education is about beating their book into kids. >> >> Poor little deluded Molly. Shall we go over to the US to make sure she >> is safe crossing the road? Look right, look left, look right again now >> Moll - oops! You guys drive on the right! Much as our certain attitudes >> won't do RP (or Molly's) neither will some soggy relativism. I think we >> might get further thinking the future with a real history in a semantic >> web. Such would contain deluded idiots who think British involvement in >> India was about transforming you 'natives' to civilised standards. There >> are better things to call bollox than the mystics. But how do we know? >> >> >> On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 11:50:18 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> There is a genetic predisposition in some people towards mysticism, those >> who have such a disposition will wander into that sphere without any >> guidance and spend a lifetime in such endeavor. In that pursuit if they >> neglect, even though to a little extent, their duties towards others it >> pinches when you find out in the end that the quest was not worth the >> effort. Molly might be sure that she has reached the ultimate in her >> efforts, but my reading is that you are just fooling yourself if you think >> so and maybe in the end you will realize like me that you were just >> following your inclination and rationalizing things to feel worthy of the >> effort. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:00 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> There is always the problem of what we feel the real motivation of people >> (like Gandhi) who one can read slept in bed with young kids in order to >> save the world by his resisting his own temptations or was a British spy >> and so on. Who knows what mystics might be doing. Maybe they just strugg >> along making livings out of a foolish audience. It can seem that way. But >> why pick on them in this world of bullshit jobs and bankers? >> >> For some people, mystic practices are very important, but then so is >> fashion, cricket and a whole range of trivia. I must be honest RP and >> declare I do not believe they achieve "Warp 10" and are in touch with every >> quantum in the universe as Molly suggests, but this is not to assume Moll >> is lying to us or doesn't have the experience she testifies to. Joan of >> Arc is a saint to some and saved the French from the English fiend. In >> films she looks good in a suit of armour. Some think she was just a >> deluded kid and there never was much of a siege of Orleans to relieve. >> Indeed, some of us think the whole of history, as held in popular >> imaginations, is crap. >> >> There are dire people about - you only have to look at the power elite >> almost anywhere to know - yet most people are in thrall to them or >> celebrity. Yet if we start looking down on people we have missed the >> point. And maybe we have to find ways of talking in which we can offend >> each other without clashing swords in ad hominem and the other standard >> distractive jousts this place has been riddled with? I am sure there are >> things to learn at your feet RP, as I already have. Molly is a good >> teacher too. And so are kids, eyes gleaming, arms round Zak enjoying his >> delight with them. Max gets jealous and performs his tricks to take part, >> in a scene moving on. Put a paedophile in this scene and the wonder >> stops. Make that me and I will want to blood a nose, though I don't do >> that kind of violence. >> >> I think the history of mysticism is a failure, but then we have what is >> largely a history of mistakes. Molly has written some acute stuff on >> tolerance. It gleamed at me from the page like Zak's eyes with a new >> girlfriend. I know it doesn't help me calibrate a Femto laser and don't >> care. I could teach her that in half-an-hour. I suspect much scientific >> fear of mysticism comes from fear of general COWDUNG public opinion and >> idiots. I don't believe in quamta other than as accounting devices, so if >> Molly brought me one back in a jar from her experience with the one my >> world-view would be shaken apart (but then the micro-structure of water is >> every attosecond). Molly will not be waiting for my consignment of jars >> with baited breath and I won't be posting any. >> >> Once one asserts the "proper" one is potentially patronising RP. This >> cannot be the end of the matter, of course, for how else to we protect our >> kids or prioritise? Yet note in this sentence I am stating that protecting >> kids is proper - against wider anthropology and history their are examples >> where this protection is not done and even seen as bad. And I could be >> patronising in raising this with you. Yet what kind of fool turns up to >> teach thinking the class is there to learn? This is a world of keeping the >> wolf from the door, not learning. >> >> I have seem Molly's apparent description of her experience thousands of >> times. It's so common it's "Warp 10" in Voyager. Scews up Paris' DNA as I >> remember. It is, of course, not a description at all, much as most >> eyewitness accounts are not very good or complete without help. Here, one >> might do the lady the courtesy of reading a couple of her books, before >> thinking I'm criticising other than constructively. One can see something >> of 'grasping frames' and inclusive argument attempting to find common >> cause. Ofcourse, there is far more I dislike about mystic and religious >> literature than I have time for. >> >> >> On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 2:38:43 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> That some mystics are very successful people is to be accepted, but if >> they had endeavored in proper spheres they might have contributed much more >> to the human pool, also it would have stopped fools like me to have wasted >> so much time on the path of knowledge, for there is nothing to be gained by >> such knowledge. Better the sportsman who plays with vigor and totally >> committed and attached to the sport than the mystic in search of answers to >> questions which when known lead to disappointment. Of what use is the >> experience or any such knowledge when faced with the fact that you have >> this life only and by laying down a path which leads to no practical >> achievement you are spoiling the life of so many others who follow you. >> Attachment to a cause is better than detachment because the latter >> diminishes the psychological motivation to excel. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Translation must be confusing idea with viewpoint somehow, two completely >> different things in the English language. I am also unsure why you think >> your perceptions and judgement of people who are seeking a mystical >> experience apply to all mystics but all I can say is I have had a >> completely different experience of people who study mysticism and have had >> mystical experiences. While some of them do follow the trends, the majority >> of people I know who follow these interests are professional, successful, >> intelligent, more often than not, loving people. You may feel that these >> pursuits are a waste of time, that does not mean they are. It just means >> that your judgments shape your opinions. not uncommon. If you feel this >> way, why enter into the discussion? Do you get something out of telling >> people they waste their time and shrug their family responsibility (even >> though you have no clue whether or not they actually do?) >> >> >> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 8:16:00 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >> >> There is difference between viewpoint and experience, in the first there >> is just an idea in the other there is the experiencing. I have known many >> people spending hours in the practice of concentration to achieve the >> experience, time which could easily have been spent on more essential >> activities. Also most people get so obsessed with the idea that they become >> carefree and start taking worldly matters carelessly, their priorities get >> skewed. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I am sure you know nothing about how I live up to my responsibilities to >> my family as illustrated by your statement. Having a mystical viewpoint, or >> your viewpoint or any other viewpoint does not require you to neglect your >> family and I have not clue why you would think so. These experiences can >> happen as you go through your daily life, fulfilling your responsibilities. >> I gave you the name Nisargadatta, a mystic from your country. He >> fulfills his daily obligations while teaching the mystical viewpoint. Look >> it up. >> >> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 1:22:59 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >> >> You have lost the direction of the discussion in this foolish business of >> halos.Pursuit of experience of what you call spiritual experience by taking >> drugs or concentration is just so much waste of time and energy. It yields >> nothing except smugness of achieving what you call the experience of >> non-duality. All this at the expense of finding time to fulfill your >> responsibility towards your family. You have to get your priorities right! >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:11 PM, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I am not sure what you want me to ask an artist, but if you mean that I >> should ask the artists how to interpret their works of art, they should be >> insulted. They would i think like to believe that there are as many >> interpretations to their works of art as there are eyes that behold them. >> >> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 5:21:27 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> Ask the artist. >> >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 4:20 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >> >> I don't see why religious people should be honored , how and in what way >> are doctors, engineers and social activists inferior to your God-knowers? >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 8:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> What I have been trying to tell you is halos are and artist rendition >> type of thing. Have little or nothing about reality. >> Why not let people just be people and not read ideas into images.. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:43 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >> >> By your reasoning people who talk a lot about God, about their experience >> of God are holy people! I have known a lot of such people to be thieves and >> vagabonds thriving on the gullibility of the masses, Osho was one such and >> was rightly booted out of the States. Maybe I should put a halo around you >> because you claim to have met God three times. >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Do you think a lot of the political leaders of today should be admired >> and follow their moral behavior.. >> >> What you just said is thieves are murders should be admired.. >> >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:18 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >> >> If that is the case why don't they have halos around so many dead >> dignitaries like the American Presidents, Indian Prime Ministers and social >> activists? >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The purpose of the halo is to draw attention.. To the Person or being in >> the picture or drawing. It does not mean that it exist in physical life.. >> It is simply a symbol of honor. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> >> ... > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
