Yes, one can be ontologically relativist and fart on Fridays. Thank you for the drift.
On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 2:39:51 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > I think in reading your explanation of for experiences fit within your > beliefs not reality.. Reality is always based of the persons perspective. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > I like to be straight forward but am not abusive, If I talk about other > people it is not to hurt but rather to make them realize that in my opinion > they are just rationalizing experiences into what they are not. What is the > non-dual perspective? How can you be infinite and finite at the same time? > I am either me, a man, or God. I cannot be both. The world is deterministic > or free, it cannot be both, but a man can be free because he doesn't know > the hidden bondage and acts according to impulses or reason and yet be an > instrument in the hands of Nature. Nature is such that it acts from within > the organism and from outside it, but ultimately it is Nature which acts > and man is just the agent. I do not claim that my viewpoint raises me above > others because I know that it is not mine but one passed down to me by > Nature. Everyone is a slave of nature and nature is such that man becomes > attached to the work he does and becomes arrogant or depressed because of > the belief that it is he who acts. > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:05 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > The genetic predispositions tend to have some kind of use. Some of these > are very crude, like sickle cell disease as a counter to malaria, or > diabetes in response to famine. Some are permanently disposed to delusion > and I really believe we live in a control fraud. mostly chemical in origin > like enslaved ants. Mystics pump out enslaving soma but may also be in > pursuit of freedom. Marx had some good ideas on freedom, but was also > stuck in the gas of racism and economic determinism - the poverty of > historicism and its chronic stupidity. You wouldn't think much of me > telling you what to do on the basis of my 'superior skin colour' like some > of my worst ancestors RP (though I'm a fourth generation union man on my > fathers side). We cannot go around telling people what they should have > done, yet in a way we also should say we think they are wrong. > > I don't read much mystic stuff because it is so quickly boring and > obviously copied - but this is true of almost all presstitute news.and > soi-called entertainment. I skip sex and action sequences in film because > they are boring copies of copies. How would we decide on what should be > taught? Thousands of serious experts have got this as badly wrong as > religionists who think education is about beating their book into kids. > > Poor little deluded Molly. Shall we go over to the US to make sure she is > safe crossing the road? Look right, look left, look right again now Moll - > oops! You guys drive on the right! Much as our certain attitudes won't do > RP (or Molly's) neither will some soggy relativism. I think we might get > further thinking the future with a real history in a semantic web. Such > would contain deluded idiots who think British involvement in India was > about transforming you 'natives' to civilised standards. There are better > things to call bollox than the mystics. But how do we know? > > > On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 11:50:18 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: > > There is a genetic predisposition in some people towards mysticism, those > who have such a disposition will wander into that sphere without any > guidance and spend a lifetime in such endeavor. In that pursuit if they > neglect, even though to a little extent, their duties towards others it > pinches when you find out in the end that the quest was not worth the > effort. Molly might be sure that she has reached the ultimate in her > efforts, but my reading is that you are just fooling yourself if you think > so and maybe in the end you will realize like me that you were just > following your inclination and rationalizing things to feel worthy of the > effort. > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:00 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > There is always the problem of what we feel the real motivation of people > (like Gandhi) who one can read slept in bed with young kids in order to > save the world by his resisting his own temptations or was a British spy > and so on. Who knows what mystics might be doing. Maybe they just strugg > along making livings out of a foolish audience. It can seem that way. But > why pick on them in this world of bullshit jobs and bankers? > > For some people, mystic practices are very important, but then so is > fashion, cricket and a whole range of trivia. I must be honest RP and > declare I do not believe they achieve "Warp 10" and are in touch with every > quantum in the universe as Molly suggests, but this is not to assume Moll > is lying to us or doesn't have the experience she testifies to. Joan of > Arc is a saint to some and saved the French from the English fiend. In > films she looks good in a suit of armour. Some think she was just a > deluded kid and there never was much of a siege of Orleans to relieve. > Indeed, some of us think the whole of history, as held in popular > imaginations, is crap. > > There are dire people about - you only have to look at the power elite > almost anywhere to know - yet most people are in thrall to them or > celebrity. Yet if we start looking down on people we have missed the > point. And maybe we have to find ways of talking in which we can offend > each other without clashing swords in ad hominem and the other standard > distractive jousts this place has been riddled with? I am sure there are > things to learn at your feet RP, as I already have. Molly is a good > teacher too. And so are kids, eyes gleaming, arms round Zak enjoying his > delight with them. Max gets jealous and performs his tricks to take part, > in a scene moving on. Put a paedophile in this scene and the wonder > stops. Make that me and I will want to blood a nose, though I don't do > that kind of violence. > > I think the history of mysticism is a failure, but then we have what is > largely a history of mistakes. Molly has written some acute stuff on > tolerance. It gleamed at me from the page like Zak's eyes with a new > girlfriend. I know it doesn't help me calibrate a Femto laser and don't > care. I could teach her that in half-an-hour. I suspect much scientific > fear of mysticism comes from fear of general COWDUNG public opinion and > idiots. I don't believe in quamta other than as accounting devices, so if > Molly brought me one back in a jar from her experience with the one my > world-view would be shaken apart (but then the micro-structure of water is > every attosecond). Molly will not be waiting for my consignment of jars > with baited breath and I won't be posting any. > > Once one asserts the "proper" one is potentially patronising RP. This > cannot be the end of the matter, of course, for how else to we protect our > kids or prioritise? Yet note in this sentence I am stating that protecting > kids is proper - against wider anthropology and history their are examples > where this protection is not done and even seen as bad. And I could be > patronising in raising this with you. Yet what kind of fool turns up to > teach thinking the class is there to learn? This is a world of keeping the > wolf from the door, not learning. > > I have seem Molly's apparent description of her experience thousands of > times. It's so common it's "Warp 10" in Voyager. Scews up Paris' DNA as I > remember. It is, of course, not a description at all, much as most > eyewitness accounts are not very good or complete without help. Here, one > might do the lady the courtesy of reading a couple of her books, before > thinking I'm criticising other than constructively. One can see something > of 'grasping frames' and inclusive argument attempting to find common > cause. Ofcourse, there is far more I dislike about mystic and religious > literature than I have time for. > > > On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 2:38:43 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: > > That some mystics are very successful people is to be accepted, but if > they had endeavored in proper spheres they might have contributed much more > to the human pool, also it would have stopped fools like me to have wasted > so much time on the path of knowledge, for there is nothing to be gained by > such knowledge. Better the sportsman who plays with vigor and totally > committed and attached to the sport than the mystic in search of answers to > questions which when known lead to disappointment. Of what use is the > experience or any such knowledge when faced with the fact that you have > this life only and by laying down a path which leads to no practical > achievement you are spoiling the life of so many others who follow you. > Attachment to a cause is better than detachment because the latter > diminishes the psychological motivation to excel. > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > Translation must be confusing idea with viewpoint somehow, two completely > different things in the English language. I am also unsure why you think > your perceptions and judgement of people who are seeking a mystical > experience apply to all mystics but all I can say is I have had a > completely different experience of people who study mysticism and have had > mystical experiences. While some of them do follow the trends, the majority > of people I know who follow these interests are professional, successful, > intelligent, more often than not, loving people. You may feel that these > pursuits are a waste of time, that does not mean they are. It just means > that your judgments shape your opinions. not uncommon. If you feel this > way, why enter into the discussion? Do you get something out of telling > people they waste their time and shrug their family responsibility (even > though you have no clue whether or not they actually do?) > > > On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 8:16:00 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: > > There is difference between viewpoint and experience, in the first there > is just an idea in the other there is the experiencing. I have known many > people spending hours in the practice of concentration to achieve the > experience, time which could easily have been spent on more essential > activities. Also most people get so obsessed with the idea that they become > carefree and start taking worldly matters carelessly, their priorities get > skewed. > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am sure you know nothing about how I live up to my responsibilities to > my family as illustrated by your statement. Having a mystical viewpoint, or > your viewpoint or any other viewpoint does not require you to neglect your > family and I have not clue why you would think so. These experiences can > happen as you go through your daily life, fulfilling your responsibilities. > I gave you the name Nisargadatta, a mystic from your country. He fulfills > his daily obligations while teaching the mystical viewpoint. Look it up. > > On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 1:22:59 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: > > You have lost the direction of the discussion in this foolish business of > halos.Pursuit of experience of what you call spiritual experience by taking > drugs or concentration is just so much waste of time and energy. It yields > nothing except smugness of achieving what you call the experience of > non-duality. All this at the expense of finding time to fulfill your > responsibility towards your family. You have to get your priorities right! > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:11 PM, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I am not sure what you want me to ask an artist, but if you mean that I > should ask the artists how to interpret their works of art, they should be > insulted. They would i think like to believe that there are as many > interpretations to their works of art as there are eyes that behold them. > > On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 5:21:27 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Ask the artist. > > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > I don't see why religious people should be honored , how and in what way > are doctors, engineers and social activists inferior to your God-knowers? > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 8:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > What I have been trying to tell you is halos are and artist rendition type > of thing. Have little or nothing about reality. > Why not let people just be people and not read ideas into images.. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:43 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > By your reasoning people who talk a lot about God, about their experience > of God are holy people! I have known a lot of such people to be thieves and > vagabonds thriving on the gullibility of the masses, Osho was one such and > was rightly booted out of the States. Maybe I should put a halo around you > because you claim to have met God three times. > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Do you think a lot of the political leaders of today should be admired and > follow their moral behavior.. > > What you just said is thieves are murders should be admired.. > > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:18 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > If that is the case why don't they have halos around so many dead > dignitaries like the American Presidents, Indian Prime Ministers and social > activists? > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > The purpose of the halo is to draw attention.. To the Person or being in > the picture or drawing. It does not mean that it exist in physical life.. > It is simply a symbol of honor. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > But I don't see any around you, my friend! > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:13 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think you need to check the paintings of Indian deities. Looks like a > lot of halos to me. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics > > What can be gained by the experience, it is a lot of hard work and takes > much time. You can see Molly, Vam and many others, they are just like us, > at least I don't see any halo around them, maybe you do. We have so many > responsibilities in this world and instead of taking care of them we are > engaged in this fruitless exercise. We need to have our priorities right! > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 11:45 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Certainly logic in that RP. Physics has got very interested > (speculatively) on observer-observed 'interactions' and quantum-jumping in > 4 sheets of space-time shadows of 8 dimensions and a role for dark matter > in biology. You have to be pretty clever to follow it and pretty dumb to > think you understand it, and that understanding requires some sort of > notion of ourselves as electro-magnetic fields in instantaneous connection > with distant aliens (these claims on a non-scientific basis are found in > some 'primitive dreamtimes') - as well as more material-organic. Someone > was standing next to me when I saw my Mongol horde and she didn't see it. > My mind distinctly placed the scene as 'outside me' yet clearly it was > inside my virtual space. > > There has long been talk of misplaced concreteness and the bifurcation of > reality (AN Whitehead here, deep in Eastern history). Reality is > structured and so is the concept of duality. Rapture and bliss may be good > for us like breast-feeding, but seem unlikely as much other than a > variation in human experience. However, I do think some kind of first > contact might be made, even in trying to have such experience. > > > On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 3:48:25 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: > > The state of bliss or rapture is just a state of awareness of a human > being, it cannot be called non-dual or God-state. If you look at the very > word 'non-dual' it means absence of two and in effect one. In any state of > consciousness or awareness there are always two--the observer and the > observation, there is the one that is aware and the bliss or rapture. > Non-dual expresses a singularity, the 'ONE', where there is no other, in > effect a state beyond consciousness or maybe just a permanent state of > unconsciousness. It is not death but the supreme state from which the > entire creation streams out following the big bang or whatever. > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:17 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Indeed you are a god to me Tony - just don't fall on my spot at the bottom > of the precipice or break Allan's coffee machine on the way down. One > could fall to grace. The Russians stopped drilling into the Earth's core > at about 8 miles. Some believe this was because they could hear the > screams from Hell. In fact, their drill just hit a pot of Allan's double > espresso and Gabby was scalded on the floor below. We have had to keep the > trap-door shut since then, though we now get messages she has made her own > hope and sunshine, > > If the mystics are mystic, why do they keep copying each other like > management textbook writers and gurus? I sort of want something different > and if I had the experience would be really pissed off if I could only > describe it as though I'd just come out of a Tom Perter's session. Of > course, I haven't be purified yet or got a licence to fly the higher > plane. If it's VTOL I promise to drop by and take you on the ride. > > There has to be more to mysticism than the Soylent Green type and the > sales pitchers of its nutritional value. Maths with no numbers does a bit > of it for me, but as we know, Allan zeroes out. We use light to remind > mice about good times and they return to them. Thought a lot on Andrew's > framework down by the river. A couple of young girls were hugging Zak - > his now rather done in back legs got a temporary cure and he bounded with > the mystic eyes of pleasure for a bit. Max went to round the old guy up so > we could go home, but the girls' dad was telling them about river otters, > so we stayed a while. To the girls' delight, the dogs went into the river > to demonstrate. It's out there somewhere. > > > On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 9:35:33 PM UTC, facilitator wrote: > > I happen to be very humble. Sometimes proud of it. I did not answer > myself. Anyone reading that has to resharpen their senses so as to make a > more simple response quite profound. > > Clearly their is something at work here which requires me know to "adjust" > my dispenser orifice. My narcissistic arrogance was not present at that > age since I mostly found myself fighting off gangs from other blocks in my > urban neighborhood. Very little time to think past which alley way is the > quickest route home. Being careful not to become cynical, I weave my way > around and find no alley way. Expounding on this any further would probably > cheapen the experience. Fascinating! Thinking there might be a deity > involved would be a first step, thinking I might be my own deity is not a > step but a precipice. > > On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > Knowing more than Tony is easy. Like Zaphod Beeblebrox, his ego is bigger > than imagination from a slice of Proust's angel cake that took him back to > an aunty's. Using such power to visit an aunt reveals a lack of knowledge > or a very dull boy. As Tony cannot be the latter, one presumes the former, > though this does not exclude the possibility his ego is bigger than the > universe itself. > > > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https:// <https://groups.google.com/d/optout> > > ... -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
