The wolves may have to undertake regulatory duty in here "Ash". The
play has been performed before - it's the one where everyone turns out
to be a secret agent in search of the fictitious anarchist with bomb
and cape. It's a good job my German translation is so poor, or our
flight would be jeopardised. I know the screams of the chickens are
annoying and that as they are female, cargo bay 2 is technically not a
cockpit. Who is flying the plane? It was on my TODO list, but Gabby
gave that to RP saying it was an origami parachute when he jumped this
sinking ship claiming his library book was overdue, He seems to have
landed in Pakistani controlled Kashmir on op of an English teacher he
didn't want sex with. He is one cunning cookie as local cops are
looking for a German lesbian.
On Saturday, 28 March 2015 01:03:32 UTC, Ash wrote:
You are a better man for the job than I. My work song would shake
while digging this grave. Progress marches on as they say, I will
try to assemble something after my wolves settle down.
On Mar 27, 2015 8:26 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Gabby (or Gabriel) has raised some interesting points and left
us unable to trust each other. This is a classic intelligence
trick. And obviously hesheorit has the place bugged.
Probably doing the spontaneity bit right now Molly. We have
similar classroom scenes. And even as an army statement, 'no
man left behind' is a lie.
I think we should continue, but even Molly and I can't trust
each other's identities as not Gabby-Alter. There are ways
through this.
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 7:59:43 PM UTC, Molly wrote:
I'd say the time for such debates is now, within the
relative calm. I completely understand and applaud the
notion of giving people the space to learn and self
govern. The no child left behind philosophy fell apart in
the US when the inclusion lines fell so far beyond kids
that could learn and self govern that the classrooms
became chaotic and students became witnesses to teachers
trying to manage disorder, and only able to do so. Kids
throwing furniture, spontaneously masturbating on a
regular basis and never passing a test set the class tempo
and every class seemed to have a child or few that
required al the attention. Teachers were frustrated
because the old system of having schools capable of
handling such students were already in place, but the
rolls were diminished and very few students attended
because of the new guidelines. It was costing taxpayers
more and their kids were not getting better education, any
of them. We were never leaving any of the kids behind,
educating them all. But the labels of special education
were so traumatizing that the grand experiment began and
failed miserably.
I know first hand the struggle of families with members
suffering from a mental illness. Once did an internship on
a suicide hotline. 90% of the callers weren't
contemplating suicide at all, just looking for someone to
talk to. The service had to set up guidelines for how many
times such people could call a day, how long the
conversation could be, what language was and wasn't
allowed etc. It was really a community service for
families dealing with these family members, as having
people to talk to and vent to gave the families some
measure of relief. I learned a lot about people in those
six months. And I think we should all have an active
"study in humanity" going on, contributing through that
study in some positive, compassionate way. Whether through
work, church, a swim club, sitting on a bench and watching
the world go by with the occasional conversation with
strangers - whatever. I don't think we should ever stop
learning about the people around us and how we relate to
them. It is a powerful mirror of life.
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 2:26:48 PM UTC-4, archytas
wrote:
Listening to mad people falls within the principles of
education as an aim in itself, though there clearly
are limits, even if it can be tough to establish what
they are. We could have some cracking debates on such
as this. Of course, you can't have the debates (which
might spawn such as books) if some miserable sods
flood it with nonsense and libellous attacks.
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 12:52:18 PM UTC, Molly
wrote:
Ed Norton was in a movie called the 25th hour that
I really liked, and not just because his
character's name was Monty Brogan. The plot line
unfolded in the 24 hours before Monty went to jail
and at one point, his friend turned to him and
said, "wouldn't it be nice if you could take your
dog to jail?" The chances of that happening
anywhere seem slim but gee, wouldn't it be nice?
I've never enjoyed competition but saw two boys
through a few decades of it and watched the
fruition of decency it can create in terms of
cooperative effort, team work, camaraderie,
strategy and physical prowess. Accepting victory
and defeat with grace is probably the most
valuable lesson that I saw them learn. When a
group can get beyond personality and move as one
toward a common goal it can be a beautiful thing.
When that is obviously absent in a group the
dysfunction can be painful to watch and the fruit
becomes toxic or dies before edible. Competitive
spirit when married to generosity of spirit is
glorious. I saw my son help another player up off
the field that had just tackled him hard (found
out later he told him, "good hit!") I also saw him
clash helmets so hard with a guy before the play
started that it was heard loudly throughout the
stadium, walk off and sit himself on the
sidelines, taking the 20 yard penalty with his
team. Was told later it was a move calculated by
the team to stop the trash talk. (We won't get
into the neck injury) But stomping on someone's
knee to try to get him out of the game, while seen
by some as just part of the competitive spirit,
takes us into that win at all cost mindset where
the honest competition is lost and the flavor of
war is set.
Free speech is a tricky thing when speech becomes
more about inflicting pain and inflaming conflict
than communicating. I thought it interesting that
the moderators were seen as beast masters by the
trolls in this group over the years, as if those
roles are a necessary part of the psychodrama. It
may be the nature of an internet group and the
reason that most have a life span. Most reasonable
people walk away from perpetual conflict. There
are groups on the internet that thrive on it, and
all the members engage. Then there are trolls on
the internet whose personalities get more of a
charge from the feeling of victory having
disbanded a functional group with conflict. How
does free speech come into play when speech is
used as a weapon of war? That use may be ingrained
in US culture, with political ads designed to
smear and manipulate voters running for months
before every election. I am sure that is what
makes Netflix's business model successful. Gotta be.
Allan has a point about the narcissist. Using
words as weapon is a major part of that
personality disorder and the flaming narcissist
goes off at the drop of a hat, willing to tell you
everything that is wrong with you and how you ruin
everything. but I think somewhere in each of us
there is a narcissist, so fascinated with their
own reflection that their awareness is stunted by
their inability to look beyond it. It becomes a
disorder when the fascination becomes obsession
and projection, and war with experience becomes
all that is known.
Are we obligated to listen to the ravings of a mad
man indulging his free speech? Are we entitled to
inflict words of hate that can lead to violence or
destruction (yelling fire in a crowded room?) Is
the prevention of the destruction of a productive
group a line that should be drawn for hate speech?
Or is it a line drawn too soon?
No soul left behind is certainly noble. But at the
level of soul, all that is required is
unconditional love. We are not required to submit
ourselves as target practice.
I have no desire to be anyone's beast master. Nor
do I want to see this group die. If it can be
preserved, it should be preserved because by all
accounts, it offers a place to dialogue like no
other. The guidelines to this group have taken
many forms over the years but have the same
essential message. Reasonable, respectful dialogue
is the space they provide. Is anyone who gets a
charge by continually violating the guidelines
(and the members) invoking their free speech or
engaging in war?
Is there an example of a society that successfully
operates with a governing structure of anarchy? I
would be interested to know. Because I would like
to experience a world where laws and social
contracts were not necessary. I haven't found it yet.
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 3:38:07 AM UTC-4,
Allan Heretic wrote:
I think you are right there Neil.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: War, good god
y'all, what is it good for?
We may have been closer to Nous sommes tous
Gabbie than we know Allan - almost had to
switch myself on and off this morning to make
sure I hadn't become one of her alters. She
put so much effort in I thought she must be
some kind of crooked scheme going, but con men
usually try and use offered exchanges of
humour to manipulate. I suspect most people
don't really empathise much beyond genetic
imprinting and sex. Odd stuff.
On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 5:44:31 AM UTC,
Allan Heretic wrote:
I think the problem lies in people having
narcissistic personality disorder. The
people involved know who they are and
about their problem . . Sadly they have no
desire to change.
This probably the problem with a lot of
groups not just ours. This narcissistic
people drive away quality people as they
have no desire to put up with them.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: War, good god
y'all, what is it good for?
Many google groups are effectively dead.
You have to wonder, in front of
undergraduates, whether anyone does
rational discourse at all. Hardly any of
them will be interested in learning how to
work things out for themselves and trying
to give them the opportunity is something
resisted very hard. We run feedback
exercises, but in staff development events
the chances of it all starting with a 10
second biopic in which you learn the
French teacher next to you teaches French
are remarkably high.
I'm seriously interested in how free
speech is stopped. This is connected with
Molly's question in this thread. The
bickering, personation, alters, slagging,
barking and the rest look like scenes from
British secondary schools - and this is
where I would judge most knowledge content
expressed over the years. Of course, I can
hear the old fart speaking this. The
jaded lecturer who cast pearls before
swine now sits in condescension on all the
teecher mincers who thought they were
smarter and cooler than Bart Simpson,
grown to druggie failure as adults. I know
the thinking in this is not good enough,
partly because I know a huge amount taught
in schools and universities is simply crap
- though not quite in the way the kids
themselves feel this.
My approach has been to look at the
"secret pleasures of bureaucracy".
Slagging Gabby, for instance, is very easy
because she even pisses off her (?) own
alters - yet what are the "secret
pleasures" of such engagement? The
possibilities are legion and disturbing -
yet what could be more disturbing of the
mannered society in which many of our kids
can't remember what they did in school
yesterday and any adults I've polled on
general and scientific understanding over
30 years live in cloud cuckoo land. One
can start a lecture by such polling and a
comparison of human knowledge with the
performance of chimpanzees on the same
multiple choice tests. The same chimps
are turning up by the end of the module too.
If we wanted to, we could offer "her (?)"
as slagging - hinting "she" is, say, a
cross-dresser (I know a few and wouldn't
want to upset most of them - slag +) etc.
Few seem to get that decent people can be
very "impolite" in actual friendship and a
lot of the mannered stuff covers appalling
war-like hostility and lies about in our
society without real help. Most murders
and brutality have such pathetic "origins"
I can barely relate the tales without
people thinking I'm making them up.
Anthropology tells similar tales. In the
Balkans and Cyprus you can find
communities with inter-marriage, shared
wealth and friendships one day, killing
each other the next. Genocides are not
uncommon and Jews are not over-often the
victims (think how impossible this debate
is and the turds who would make me a
holocaust denier). I suspect "secret
pleasures" in hating other people, even
that the relevant traumas may be
generations old.
My guess has long been that most free
speech can't start because people get used
to living without knowledge because it is
much easier to cheat following fashion or
modelling on role. I'd love to get into
discussion of such and to an extent can
with books and papers (there is a
'fashion' theory of learning and
exploitation). What we need to imagine is
why various clowns and barkers, those
gossiping loudly at the back or even those
good adaptive children who want to know
which page of the textbook to copy, want
to stop us having our free speech.
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:50:26 PM
UTCes, archytas wrote:
I was just thinking I don't go around
chasing the tail pipes of north bound
trams, when the modern art of MOMA
dawned on me.
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 4:07:19
PM UTC, facilitator wrote:
Neil, I wish I could sculpt with
metal to the degree you sculpt
with words! I would have been in
MOMA years ago.
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at
12:01:31 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
I was impressed when I thought
she was a bot. One had to
admire that almost human
quality. Now we know she's
just a daft old bat addicted
to white board wipe vapour or
a runaway from the Rocky
Horror Show, the
disappointment would be
intense if we'd ever cared for
substrate dependant mind fetish.
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