…how old are you?' [White Queen] 'I’m seven and a half, exactly.' 'You needn’t say "exactly",' the Queen remarked. 'I can believe it without that. Now I’ll give you something to believe. I’m just one hundred and one, five months and a day.' 'I can’t believe that!' said Alice. 'Can’t you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. 'Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.' Alice laughed. 'There’s no use trying,' she said 'one can’t believe impossible things.' 'I daresay you haven’t had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
In here, we can't even stir an American to imagine herself a Soviet apparatchik. On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 7:49:43 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > Castoriadis, C. (2007). Figures of the thinkable. Stanford, CA: Stanford > University Press. > I've attached a copy of the file I was reading and did some cut and paste > from. > > On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 2:21:25 PM UTC+1, Molly wrote: >> >> What is the 2007 Castoriadis reference, Neil. I would like to look it up. >> >> On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 5:41:34 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>> >>> There is no desiring without imagination. (Aristotle, De Anima, 433b p. >>> 29) >>> I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart’s affections and >>> the truth of the Imagination. (John Keats, Letter to Benjamin Bailey, 22 >>> November 1817) >>> Why could we not start by positing a dream, a poem, a symphony as >>> paradigmatic of the fullness of being and by seeing in the physical world a >>> different mode of being, instead of looking at things the other way round, >>> instead of seeing in the imaginary – that is, human – mode of existence, a >>> deficient or secondary mode of being? (Cornelius Castoriadis, The Imaginary >>> Institution of Society, 1987, p. 5) >>> >>> In Castoriadis’s own words: ‘what makes a word what it is, >>> meaning-wise, is its overtones, its resonances and >>> consonances’ (Castoriadis, 2007, p. 43). He offers a very illustrative >>> example of the creative potentiality >>> of such melodic overtones in his analysis of Shakespearean texts and the >>> poetry of Rilke: >>> The melody of the meaning is the horizontal relation between the >>> meanings and the intensity of the >>> particular words in their succession, which already in itself contains a >>> harmonic component. For, just as, >>> when one hears the end of a melody, its musical substance includes what >>> preceded it, so the deployment of >>> the meaning in a poetic phrase, which constitutes in itself a temporal >>> form, culminates in a term that is >>> what it is only as a function of everything that came beforehand. The >>> harmony of the meaning seems to be, >>> strictly speaking, an illogical expression, since harmony is the >>> consonance of several voices and because >>> the poem – more generally, a linguistic expression – seems monodic. But >>> there is harmony because there >>> are harmonics of the words’ significations… >>> And continues: >>> [harmony is] certainly inseparable from the listener, from the concrete >>> audience, but this is also and >>> especially ‘impersonally’ deposited in language. A word can function in >>> language only by means of these >>> indefinite referrals, each one of which engages and sets in motion other >>> referrals. The harmonic richness >>> of a line is made from the richness of the referrals of the words that >>> compose it. (Castoriadis, 2007, p. 71) >>> >>> The metaphorical force of ‘narrowly imagined’ concepts such as that of >>> ‘growth’ in economics, regarding our ability to break with established >>> political economy frames. Lakoff (2010), a cognitive linguist, argues that >>> a real break with those frames can only exist in the employment of a >>> radically different metaphorical frame that goes beyond negation (evidenced >>> in anti-growth policies) or appropriation (as is often the case in green >>> growth), but rather posits entirely new concepts for guiding policy, such >>> as that of well-being. >>> >>> Organizations are imagined not merely in the sense that what shapes them >>> is ‘known but cannot be told’ (Castoriadis, 1987, p. 43) or ‘be made >>> explicit’, but that what is known is actually and continuously represented, >>> signified and affected by those making up the organization. Some of these >>> representations/significations/affects are indeed explicit and may include >>> scientific data and mathematical figures. Yet it is not our inability to >>> ‘translate’ that stifles creative imagination in practice, but a failure of >>> individuals, organizations and societies to lucidly recognize their >>> ownership of those figures/meanings/ emotions. This radical position is at >>> the heart of the Castoriadian notion of imagination: creativity is already >>> there, albeit hand in hand with the obfuscation that prevents its lucid >>> recognition in the psyche and society. It also enables us to re-signify and >>> reimagine organizations and organizing differently, suggesting that >>> critique is not all we have in dealing with these limits. Through the >>> Castoriadian ontology we are better able to imagine the form that such >>> reconfigurations might take in organizing, not simply as a challenge of >>> instituted (individualized, ‘psychologized’, or rationalized) reality, but >>> moreover as active carriers of new legitimacies, creating organizational >>> contexts that ‘search for their own foundations’ >>> >>> I knew this Greek guy and he played a mean piano. >>> Castoriadis, C. (1987). The imaginary institution of society. Cambridge: >>> Polity. >>> Lakoff, G. (2010). Why it matters how we frame the environment. >>> Environmental Communication, 4(1), 70–81. >>> >>> Not everything that comes out of the imagination is good. Most can't >>> even do critique (imagining it negative) let alone get to 'imagine that' on >>> how a new scenario might work. Science has been working for a couple of >>> centuries by excluding dull idiots like the worst religionists and >>> politicians from the laboratory. Getting people out of the way to progress >>> society in general is tougher. Give them the chance to choose between >>> Democrat and GOP and they imagine they are free. Ho, ho ho ... >>> >>> On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 9:43:29 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> There are a lot of books about on more imaginative approaches. This is >>>> typical: >>>> Releasing the Imagination: Essays on Education, the Arts, and Social >>>> Change. The Jossey-Bass Education Series. >>>> Greene, Maxine >>>> The essays in this book are the author's attempt to connect her own >>>> seeking with the strivings of other teachers and teacher educators who are >>>> tired of a self-centered, technocratic existence and who want to enhance >>>> their understanding of diversity. The essays concentrate on imagination as >>>> a means through which to assemble a coherent world, because imagination is >>>> what makes empathy possible and what allows people to enter others' worlds >>>> (e.g., through poetry or music). Moving from an account of school >>>> restructuring to a rendering of the shapes of literacy, the book examines >>>> the processes of human questioning and resistance to meaninglessness. Part >>>> 1, "Creating Possibilities," includes: (1) "Seeking Contexts"; (2) >>>> "Imagination, Breakthroughs, and the Unexpected"; (3) "Imagination, >>>> Community, and the School"; (4) "Discovering a Pedagogy"; (5) "Social >>>> Vision and the Dance of Life"; and (6) "The Shapes of Childhood Recalled." >>>> Part 2, "Illuminations and Epiphanies," includes: (7) "The Continuing >>>> Search for Curriculum"; (8) "Writing To Learn"; (9) "Teaching for >>>> Openings"; (10) "Art and Imagination"; and (11) "Texts and Margins." Part >>>> 3, "Community in the Making," includes: (12) "The Passions of Pluralism"; >>>> (13) "Standards, Common Learnings, and Diversity"; and (14) "Multiple >>>> Voices and Multiple Realities." (SM) >>>> No doubt I should be ashamed to know even this a a scientist. A mug >>>> like me just looks for the on and off switches. >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 6:27:08 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think that is what they are reporting/promoting everything is going >>>>> via wire.. >>>>> What i don't like is the lack of creative programers capitable of >>>>> truly creative programing.. most of them are not much more than line >>>>> fillers ,, filling in only segments. . Creative but not very original. . >>>>> Creativity is extremely difficult. . >>>>> >>>>> The eco advantages for the environment are great.. with advances in >>>>> airship technology will be of great advantages especially in fuel >>>>> economy >>>>> .. the elite of the world are recklessly using resources to the >>>>> detriment >>>>> of the rest of the world.. internet can become a world saver.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 6:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Imagine That >>>>> >>>>> Failing eyesight makes the zoom feature a blessing. I now prefer >>>>> electronic text to paper. Pity electronic speech is so dire and >>>>> difficult >>>>> to speed read with (some blind colleagues have got used to listening at >>>>> speeds I can't). >>>>> >>>>> I wish Molly was right on the move to something more spiritual, but >>>>> research suggests a big physical element in electronic receptions. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> sure the imagination button is switched on n most people, and soon we >>>>> will >>>>> have products for all kinds of physical simulation to go with the mobile. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 9:50:27 AM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. Sleep allows the brain to reset. . My episodes are always >>>>>> early morning. . 5 - 7 am. Figures other than to me they are very >>>>>> boring. . >>>>>> As it is adult onset.. i am wondering if my smart phones ae part of >>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> If i really want to read a document i prefer a combo of paper / >>>>>> electronic.. >>>>>> I like human content. . My preference a cuppa coffee / tea sitting >>>>>> around a table talking with friends. . The Internet will do. And is >>>>>> nice >>>>>> for long distances.. and is convenient as you can answer when up.. i >>>>>> always >>>>>> turn my phone to airplane mode while sleeping. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do think the internet is slowly down the ability to think.. to >>>>>> much us being passed off as truth when in reality it is a lot of cut >>>>>> and >>>>>> paste .. i am left wondering if the are not basting a idea from a bad >>>>>> recipe. >>>>>> >>>>>> BOO... >>>>>> >>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 9:06 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Imagine That >>>>>> >>>>>> Big hug across the divide to you, Allan. Speedy recovery. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 5:56:42 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The older i get the longer it takes to recover. And they run in >>>>>>> cycles. . Unfortunately medication is only sliwing them and cutting >>>>>>> severity. >>>>>>> But that is better than raw.. >>>>>>> The poery is only madness running thu my head hooe it is not to >>>>>>> crazy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Sent: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 11:48 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Imagine That >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A head full of soap opera, nightmare indeed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 6:45:07 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a dislike for episodes. . One thing is they are not gòd for >>>>>>>> clarity of thought.. but one good thing it was lite. Problem is I >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> been having them for msy many years even befor I came to Europe.. i >>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>> thought of them as severe nightmares. >>>>>>>> It is good to know . . . I think.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Sent: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 4:32 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Imagine That >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Despite imagination Allan, I have never been able to regard meeting >>>>>>>> a bloke as a date. The way round this seems to be not dating in order >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> gender balanced. Never liked the performances anyway. Tired today, i >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> 'after 'flu' way. Looking forward to dog walk being less of a trudge >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> no throbbing pains in my left eye and head. Instructions to buy >>>>>>>> Ginger >>>>>>>> Wine for hot toddies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree all that Molly and it all expands into several books - >>>>>>>> though really one can only create the conditions for a trail every so >>>>>>>> often. This would be worth talking through, though most spirits are >>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> weak to try. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll try again if Max leaves me any energy and the toddies don't >>>>>>>> get too overwhelming. May just let them. Much of what needs saying >>>>>>>> is not >>>>>>>> in the public domain, which is odd given how easy much of it is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, 3 April 2015 12:33:14 UTC+1, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will take my carbon dating as a compliment as I think the age of >>>>>>>>> reason our downfall. We only seemed to have an inkling about how our >>>>>>>>> extension through technology would bring us back through it where >>>>>>>>> reasonable paradigms don't work for us, and as close as we can get to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> working model is again mystic. Not to say reason is thrown aside. It >>>>>>>>> must >>>>>>>>> be integrated and given its mechanical function so we can move into >>>>>>>>> something greater, having been hijacked for too long and used in the >>>>>>>>> power >>>>>>>>> and control games. We are more than mental, but are beaten with it >>>>>>>>> until we >>>>>>>>> give it all up to merely survive, our self image blown to smithereens >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For too long, no one recognized the magician of the beautiful, >>>>>>>>> those that move naturally and leave beauty in their wake. We've lost >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> ability to recognize beauty, having been drenched in mundane by >>>>>>>>> deteriorating culture and technology. But something has come of it. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>> there are those among us that move in action of the divine principle >>>>>>>>> within, and those among us that can recognize the beauty that >>>>>>>>> surrounds >>>>>>>>> them and envelops us. If we can let go of the need to know why, and >>>>>>>>> move >>>>>>>>> along in this action, we can be taken where paradigms are no longer >>>>>>>>> necessary. I am not sure if a group can be carried along, or if we, >>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>> in action of the divine principle within, move with the world as it >>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>> perfection, accepting the imperfection as inherent to the divine >>>>>>>>> principle, >>>>>>>>> knowing the imperfection is changing into perfection through the >>>>>>>>> action. >>>>>>>>> Maybe its always been like this. Maybe it always will be. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 5:52:32 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had a nice afternoon. Turned a bar in Manchester into an >>>>>>>>>> old-style tavern with folk singing and a free barrel of Old >>>>>>>>>> Peculiar. The >>>>>>>>>> themes were about returning to Greek and Medieval notions of >>>>>>>>>> rationality, >>>>>>>>>> which have long struck me as in need of a few beers to get into. >>>>>>>>>> Debate >>>>>>>>>> went so well I hardly needed to say anything. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Greeks were all over the place around the relevant time, in >>>>>>>>>> Italy and around the Med. This was the time of the of what Hans >>>>>>>>>> Joas >>>>>>>>>> dubbed "cosmic religion" of late Antiquity, a fusion of Greek >>>>>>>>>> cosmological >>>>>>>>>> speculation. Babylonian astrology, Egyptian theology, Jewish thought >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> popular magic. There were many attempts to translate this into >>>>>>>>>> political >>>>>>>>>> constitutions. Most of this was put to the Roman sword, and >>>>>>>>>> intellectuals >>>>>>>>>> became mystic, aspiring to find new ways to transcend earthly >>>>>>>>>> systems >>>>>>>>>> entirely, rising through planetary spheres, purging themselves of >>>>>>>>>> materiality to pure reason - that human reason that is simply the >>>>>>>>>> action of >>>>>>>>>> a divine principle within us. Rationality here becomes beyond >>>>>>>>>> spiritual to >>>>>>>>>> the mystical achievement of union with he divine. In the absence of >>>>>>>>>> Molly, >>>>>>>>>> we did the internal warming of Old Peculiar and some Lancashire Folk. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So why look to the past like this? The simple answer is that our >>>>>>>>>> present is still full of it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The second area we looked at once the beer was going down was the >>>>>>>>>> Medieval. You need to be half-cut to take what went on then. One >>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>> strongest features of this time concerns just how humans consider >>>>>>>>>> themselves superior and different to animals. We are still taught >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> crap as kids - 'it's rationality stupid'. Cue some cute pictures of >>>>>>>>>> animals problem solving and being very rational (lions hunting at >>>>>>>>>> night is >>>>>>>>>> a real killer). And a run out for Allan's soul, with a slight >>>>>>>>>> twist. What >>>>>>>>>> separates humans and animals is that humans can imagine they possess >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> immortal soul. If the soul is the seat of reason, to say humans are >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> possession of one is to say we are rational creatures. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You need the top shelf now, as these forms of religiosity are the >>>>>>>>>> basis of bureaucracy and rationality. Descartes becomes spiritual >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> mystic. The question, of course, is whether we can escape. It's >>>>>>>>>> bank >>>>>>>>>> holiday here on Friday. This brings discussion of the archaeology >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> "heroic societies" other than just the Attic tragedy kind, as >>>>>>>>>> engines of >>>>>>>>>> the self-aggrandising story. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By the end (people fly home Tuesday) we hope to be able to talk >>>>>>>>>> new economic, perhaps find some partnerships to write something >>>>>>>>>> different - >>>>>>>>>> or not write and think of different things to do. After a couple of >>>>>>>>>> pints, >>>>>>>>>> I was imagining dating Molly and Allan in about 500 BC to 1500 AD. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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