On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 10:52 +0100, Conrad Laus wrote: > The point here is to switch to a non monopoly funded ISP so that this > ISP will have more financial power to negotiate better with anyone who > can offer a more competitive deal for the final benefit of the subscriber.
In that case, any ISP except Maltanet or Onvol is non-monopoly funded. However, that ISP is funding a monopoly - you're always using Maltanet in the end. > From whom the infrastructure is bought is not that much relevant over > time if the ISPs are empowered by the subscriber base. The game being > played by Datastream and Melita is precisely this. They do not want the > other ISPs to be in strong negotiating positions. How can any other ISP be in a strong position? We have more than 18 ISPs for a population of 400,000! One point which has not been mentioned yet in this thread is the issue of international bandwidth competition. As you stated, Malta has only very recently experienced competition in international bandwidth, due to the provision of this service by Vodafone. However, I have been told that Vodafone sells bandwidth at approximately the same rate as Datastream/Maltanet (correct me if I'm wrong). So really there's no apparent benefit for any ISP to stop using the DS/Maltanet bandwidth - they'd be paying the same and getting the same. How typical of Malta. Instead of companies healthily competing and the customer benefiting from this, companies agree to not start a "price war" and keep prices fixed. What some ISPs are doing right now is purchasing half their bandwidth from DS/Maltanet and the rest from Vodafone. However, this neither decreases prices nor provides better speeds. What it does is increase connection reliability. Keith > > Regards > > Noel Pulis wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I agree with all that you say. The problem in Malta, as I see it, is the > > problem of monopoly and shit. I used to work with an ISP too, using Lavander > > system which was very good at first. > > > > After a while Datastream had the idea of starting up the new system of > > Stream! Oh well, still people went with other ISPs. Then Datastream decided > > to merge with Maltanet, thus killing all ISP with the LM9.99. > > > > Although it killed them before with the 2Mbit upgrade. Also Datastream > > instructed all the ISP's that modem replacements are to be done no more from > > the ISPs but if a client of ex. LinuxNET had a modem fault, LinuxNET has to > > send the client to replace the modem at MaltaNET! A competitor who literally > > used to ask the client if he was happy with the service and offer MaltaNET > > services! > > > > Also at the ISP I used to work offered the client the Activation of line in > > 3 Weeks max. One time a client was held 5 Weeks to do a line activation and > > then when they confirmed that the line is ready and he can connect..... he > > couldn’t (there was a fault in the line). Instead of fixing the line there > > and then, they simply told me to open a fault report for him. The client > > waited 2 more days to begin using his internet. Now, If you go to MaltaNET > > and do a new connection, they either give it to you that day or the day > > after. BTW, They used to give me hell when there was a problem at a client. > > > > The thing to literally change to Vodafone (all ISPs), is not a bad thing. > > The problem is that the ISP would still use Datastream infrastructure to get > > internet. Another solution is to change to Cable, or the most expensive > > solution for an ISP is to rewire all Malta. > > > > Personally I Disagree with bandwidth limit. I think it should be Unlimited > > but the ISP should limit P2P. There is a way to distinguish between Normal > > web download(Example ISO's Of Linux, And stuff like that) And the P2P > > transfer. > > > > So, iether MCA, and EU regulators are blind or I, am going crazy. > > > > > > Noel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Keith Vassallo > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:04 PM > > To: Malta Linux User Group - general list > > Subject: Re: [LINUX.ORG.MT] Re: Internet latency times > > > > Hi Conrad, > > > > I agree that for people who use the Internet lightly, any local ISP will > > provide a good enough Internet service. However, when I mentioned "good > > ISP" I was referring to the needs of Graham, which I assumed (correctly) > > needed to make heavy use of the service. This is the reason why I doubt > > a local ISP will provide him, or myself, with a good enough service for > > our needs - unless you're ready to pay of course. I have in fact > > contacted several ISPs trying to get on a business connection - which > > supposedly has better service at a higher price. However, even though > > I'm registered as self employed and have a VAT number, nobody will give > > me a business connection. Also, regular home users are not able to get a > > business connection. > > > > I personally don't download any illegal software what-so-ever. If many > > people did the same, then not a fourth of the people who complain about > > the Internet would complain. However, I do download a lot of Linux ISOs, > > Gentoo updates, program demos etc..., even as part of my work. It is for > > this reason that I simply can't work with bandwidth limits. > > > > In the UK, the trend is now to remove limits. Both AOL and Telewest > > provide an ADSL service with no limits for £14.99 a month. Of course, > > I'm not expecting local ISPs to be able to compete (that's insane!) > > however, this trend of offering an unlimited service is now spreading > > throught several European countries, including France, Sweden etc... > > etc... > > > > You also mention that we should not subscribe to ISPs of local > > monopolies. Can you tell me how? Since Datastream is now Maltanet, which > > is an ISP, and which is the company selling bandwidth to other ISPs, no > > matter what ISP I choose I always end up paying Maltanet/Datastream. > > Basically, if everyone switched away from Maltanet, Maltanet would still > > be in business. One would have to switch to an ISP which only buys > > bandwidth from Vodafone... I don't know of any ISP which does this > > myself. I'd be glad to find out. > > > > What might be interesting is that now several local ISPs are > > researching, or testing, wireless broadband connection services, with > > some ISPs offering up to 6Mbit. We'll have to wait and see. > > > > Keith > > > > On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 09:38 +0100, Conrad Laus wrote: > > > >>Hi Keith, > >> > >>I`ve been working with an ISP for the past six years and I have the > >>inside version of the facts. Your comment about "good ISP" and "Malta" > >>being a paradox is not correct. From my experience different people > >>have different expectations and no isp is able to cater for all the > >>different tastes and desires. If you think that this only applies for > >>Malta then you are wrong. > >> > >>Broadband limits by Volume started in other countries a number of years > >>before they started in Malta. Telephone support provided by most large > >>ISPs in other countries is on expensive pay by the minute phone numbers. > >> In Malta this has not been the case. > >> > >>Then again, keep in mind that in other countries, Liberalisation and > >>real competition in the Telecoms sector has started around 10 years ago. > >> In Malta we have not yet started for all is still controlled directly > >>or indirectly by the old monopolies. > >> > >>At the end of the day, it is known that levels of service in any sector > >>only improve when real competition is promoted. Government has little > >>interest at the moment in promoting this for he would be damaging his > >>own company and those of political friends. As users, I think we > >>should promote this by not subscribing with the ISPs of the old > > > > monopolies. > > > >>This way, the non monopoly funded ISPS will grow stronger and be able to > >>provide better services. > >> > >>Cheers > >> > >>Conrad > >> > >>Keith Vassallo wrote: > >> > >>>Hi Shawn, > >>> > >>>IMHO, "good ISP" and "Malta" are quite a paradox. Anyway, I've tried > >>>several ISPs: > >>> > >>>Maltanet: Great speeds, but with a 12GB download limit (depends on which > >>>plan you choose) > >>>Waldonet: I was with Waldonet for two months. Phoned for support four > >>>times. Nevery got a reply. Switched to another ISP. (This is just my > >>>experience though, not saying Waldonet have bad support). > >>>Bellnet: They say the speeds are quite good. A friend of mine complains > >>>that he has no idea what limits his bandwidth has, since Bellnet use the > >>>Datastream (ehem, I should say maltanet) lavender service, the last time > >>>I checked. Also, if you want to setup a home server, forget about > >>>bellnet. > >>>Keyworld: No download limits, but you only get decent speeds at night. > >>>I'm supposed to have a 2Mbit connection but download with half-megabit > >>>speeds. > >>>Melitanet, your current ISP: Don't even think about them. > >>> > >>>Again, this is only my experience and opinion, your experience may vary. > >>> > >>>Keith > >>> > >>>On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 06:37 +0100, Shawn Cassar wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Sorry people to jutt in like this. I am new to the list but have been > >>>>following linux and it's developments since I was a kid, have 3 comps at > > > > > >>>>home (including my lappy) running Mandrake only (no dual boot). > >>>> > >>>>I am seeing you talk about isp ping rate, I too am with Melitanet and I > > > > want > > > >>>>to change ASAP cause the service and performance is terrible, plus they > > > > are > > > >>>>charging me Lm21 per month for nothing. > >>>> > >>>>So, in your opinions which are the best 2 isps right now? (One with > > > > download > > > >>>>limits and the Other without). > >>>> > >>>>I have been told to either switch to Bellnet or to Waldonet. Anybody > > > > has > > > >>>>experience about any of these 2 during peak hours? > >>>> > >>>>Thanks alot > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Waldonet offers unlimited downloads too. A bit on the expensive side > >>>>>though.. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Keyworld offers unlimited downloads, actually (I dont work at Keyworld > >>>>>>hehe). > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 04:08 -0800, Graham Petley wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> The response time is quite variable. Recent pings give: > >>>>>>>$ ping -c 10 kh.google.com (about 1245) > >>>>>>>--- kh.l.google.com ping statistics --- > >>>>>>>10 packets transmitted, 10 received, > >>>>>>>0% packet loss, time 9034ms > >>>>>>>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 143.385/188.061/399.220/87.340 ms > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>$ ping -c 10 kh.google.com (about 12.55) > >>>>>>>--- kh.l.google.com ping statistics --- > >>>>>>>10 packets transmitted, 10 received, > >>>>>>>0% packet loss, time 9039ms > >>>>>>>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 80.242/85.977/89.495/2.958 ms > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>In fact, this morning Google Earth, whch was simply not responding > >>>>>>>yesterday > >>>>>>>evening, was working fine. I suppose 20:45 in the evening is a peak > > > > time > > > >>>>>>>to > >>>>>>>California. I use Melita Cable as my ISP. I would shift if anyone > > > > offered > > > >>>>>>>unlimited downloads, but I don't think anyone does. > >>>>>>>My web site is still slow :-( > >>>>>>>$ ping -c 10 vlsitechnology.org (about 12.56) > >>>>>>>--- vlsitechnology.org ping statistics --- > >>>>>>>10 packets transmitted, 10 received, > >>>>>>>0% packet loss, time 9019ms > >>>>>>>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 211.454/215.173/222.490/3.495 ms > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>- Graham Petley > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>MLUG-list mailing list > >>>>>>>[email protected] > >>>>>>>http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-- > >>>>>Captain Alan Muscat > >>>>>403. 'Zephyr', > >>>>>Mikiel Ang. Grima Street, > >>>>>Pembroke STJ 07 > >>>>>MALTA. > >>>>> > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>Tel: +356 21 372773 > >>>>>Mob: +356 99 423001 > >>>>>Fax: +356 21 374764 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>MLUG-list mailing list > >>>>>[email protected] > >>>>>http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >>>> > >>>>_________________________________________________________________ > >>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > > > > > >>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>MLUG-list mailing list > >>>>[email protected] > >>>>http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>MLUG-list mailing list > >>>>[email protected] > >>>>http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >> -- Keith Vassallo Registered Linux User #290991 http://www.keithvassallo.net
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