Well, I only got 5 out of 8. I guess computers have gotten clever. Damn new-fangled gadgets!
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Bahodir Mansurov <[email protected]> wrote: > It’s official, Ryan is old-fashioned, unless you can show otherwise. Here > is the challenge: [1]. > > [1] > http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/08/opinion/sunday/algorithm-human-quiz.html?_r=0 > > On Mar 9, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Ryan Kaldari <[email protected]> wrote: > > Call me old-fashioned, but I would really hate to see the lead sentences > of Wikipedia articles auto-generated by a program. Our text is dry and > monotonous enough as it is :) > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I agree with Magnus that it should be Wikidata to the rescue for problems >> like these, not some new policy that throws current WP contributors into a >> tizzy. I am not sure how precisely, but maybe if all parts of a lead >> sentence were in Wikidata then one could then experiment with a new >> Wikidata property for "Mobile lead" which could first be seeded with the >> label and barring that the WP lead? >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I'll state a bunch of things that are obvious to me, but should probably >>> be written down in some way... >>> >>> IPA, other names, and names in other languages indeed make reading >>> harder. They are there because of a tradition. There's a tradition of >>> printing encyclopedia articles like this (that's also where the bold font >>> in each articles' first words comes from). Just open any printed >>> encyclopedia. It's a nice continuation of tradition, and Wikipedia takes it >>> to extremes thanks to the blessings of Unicode - old printed encyclopedias >>> were lucky to have Cyrillic characters in their typography, and some good >>> ones had IPA, Arabic, and Devanagari, but you won't find pervasive use of >>> Georgian or Kannada in a lot of printed encyclopedias. We have pretty much >>> everything in Wikipdeia. The information is valuable, but having it all in >>> parentheses in the first sentence begins to be non-practical. >>> >>> It will help to at least be aware that a proposal to change this will >>> break with traditions; traditions must be treated with respect. But in the >>> 21st century on the web it may make sense to transfer IPA and names in >>> other languages to the infobox. Other names in the same language will >>> probably have to stay in the opening sentence, because article naming is a >>> super-contentious issue. >>> >>> And yes, the Foundation has no authority to just change it, because it's >>> a matter for the Manual of Style, which is owned by the community (in all >>> languages). As a member of the editing community, I would support it, and I >>> even mentioned it on mailing lists in the past (too busy to search where), >>> but it needs to go through proper discussion. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> “We're living in pieces, >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>> >>> 2015-03-07 2:49 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> (moving to mobile-l) >>>> >>>> Thanks Vibha, this is really informative. >>>> >>>> It's very clear that our first sentences really suck for supporting >>>> quick lookup, primarily because their information hierarchy is all wrong. >>>> That said, it's important to remember that we now have Wikidata >>>> descriptions displayed in the apps for this exact reason: to let people >>>> find out quickly and easily what something is. >>>> >>>> So, although I agree that our first sentences are suboptimal, it's >>>> important to put the problem in context and remember that users do have >>>> Wikidata descriptions now to satisfy this use case. It's not like we're >>>> totally failing them, we could just be doing a bit better. >>>> >>>> Rather than piling on hacks by trying to scrape the content in the >>>> first sentence and reorganise it (which causes information loss, and is >>>> extremely fragile from a technological perspective), the long term solution >>>> is, at least to me, to invest in is getting our engaged readers to write >>>> clear, coherent Wikidata descriptions. These can then be used across all >>>> platforms to support that workflow. >>>> >>>> Of course, there may be room for some quick wins that we can put in >>>> place while we figure out truly compelling UX for getting readers to submit >>>> descriptions. We can explore those quick wins in our brainstorming session >>>> on Monday. But we must remember that these will only be short-term, hacky >>>> solutions to the problem, and that we need to address this problem at the >>>> source in order to be really successful at it. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> On 6 March 2015 at 16:13, Jon Robson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any reason this is on mobile-tech and not mobile-l (I'd love to hear >>>>> from people like Amir on this subject)? It would be good to flag this >>>>> problem to a wider audience and part of our problem with most mobile >>>>> issues >>>>> is people just are not aware of this sort of thing. Many probably haven't >>>>> even heard of the hemingway app... >>>>> >>>>> It would be interesting to see how a wikidata generated first sentence >>>>> would score with the same app. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Vibha Bamba <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Folks, >>>>>> Kaity and I used the Hemingway app <http://www.hemingwayapp.com/> to >>>>>> analyze the readability of our first sentence, using a few articles. >>>>>> They >>>>>> all scored poorly, an ideal grade level of 10 is recommended for clear >>>>>> bold >>>>>> writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> This difficult problem arises from the first sentence containing one >>>>>> or more of the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> - IPA Keys >>>>>> - Birth/ death dates >>>>>> - Other Names/ AKA's >>>>>> - Help/info links >>>>>> - Alternate spellings and scripts >>>>>> - Additional details >>>>>> >>>>>> Details like dates are replicated in the infobox, if it exists in the >>>>>> article. >>>>>> Other templates such as AKA's/IPA's are extremely useful but need to >>>>>> be presented in a clear and structured manner. Some of this comes from >>>>>> the Manual >>>>>> of style >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#First_sentence>, >>>>>> but it is abused in many cases. >>>>>> >>>>>> Its sad, because many readers come to Wikipedia to answer the 'What >>>>>> is this/ who is this' question. Google Knowledge panel strips out all >>>>>> brackets and presents important details as a list, under the description. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have started investigating solutions for this on mobile. I would >>>>>> encourage you to try this out on mobile web or apps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Vibha & Kaity >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> Articles we used: >>>>>> Bern <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bern> >>>>>> Genghis Khan <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan> >>>>>> Cephalopod <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod> >>>>>> Mahatma Gandhi <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi> >>>>>> Nietzsche <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche> >>>>>> Carthage <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage> >>>>>> Phoenicia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia> >>>>>> Timur <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Vibha Bamba >>>>>> Senior Designer | WMF Design >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dan Garry >>>> Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps >>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mobile-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Mobile-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > > >
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