Damn, now I need to write a wiki poetry generator? On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 6:41 PM Ryan Kaldari <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, I only got 5 out of 8. I guess computers have gotten clever. Damn > new-fangled gadgets! > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Bahodir Mansurov <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> It’s official, Ryan is old-fashioned, unless you can show otherwise. Here >> is the challenge: [1]. >> >> [1] >> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/08/opinion/sunday/algorithm-human-quiz.html?_r=0 >> >> On Mar 9, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Ryan Kaldari <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Call me old-fashioned, but I would really hate to see the lead sentences >> of Wikipedia articles auto-generated by a program. Our text is dry and >> monotonous enough as it is :) >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I agree with Magnus that it should be Wikidata to the rescue for >>> problems like these, not some new policy that throws current WP >>> contributors into a tizzy. I am not sure how precisely, but maybe if all >>> parts of a lead sentence were in Wikidata then one could then experiment >>> with a new Wikidata property for "Mobile lead" which could first be seeded >>> with the label and barring that the WP lead? >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I'll state a bunch of things that are obvious to me, but should >>>> probably be written down in some way... >>>> >>>> IPA, other names, and names in other languages indeed make reading >>>> harder. They are there because of a tradition. There's a tradition of >>>> printing encyclopedia articles like this (that's also where the bold font >>>> in each articles' first words comes from). Just open any printed >>>> encyclopedia. It's a nice continuation of tradition, and Wikipedia takes it >>>> to extremes thanks to the blessings of Unicode - old printed encyclopedias >>>> were lucky to have Cyrillic characters in their typography, and some good >>>> ones had IPA, Arabic, and Devanagari, but you won't find pervasive use of >>>> Georgian or Kannada in a lot of printed encyclopedias. We have pretty much >>>> everything in Wikipdeia. The information is valuable, but having it all in >>>> parentheses in the first sentence begins to be non-practical. >>>> >>>> It will help to at least be aware that a proposal to change this will >>>> break with traditions; traditions must be treated with respect. But in the >>>> 21st century on the web it may make sense to transfer IPA and names in >>>> other languages to the infobox. Other names in the same language will >>>> probably have to stay in the opening sentence, because article naming is a >>>> super-contentious issue. >>>> >>>> And yes, the Foundation has no authority to just change it, because >>>> it's a matter for the Manual of Style, which is owned by the community (in >>>> all languages). As a member of the editing community, I would support it, >>>> and I even mentioned it on mailing lists in the past (too busy to search >>>> where), but it needs to go through proper discussion. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>>> “We're living in pieces, >>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>>> >>>> 2015-03-07 2:49 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> (moving to mobile-l) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Vibha, this is really informative. >>>>> >>>>> It's very clear that our first sentences really suck for supporting >>>>> quick lookup, primarily because their information hierarchy is all wrong. >>>>> That said, it's important to remember that we now have Wikidata >>>>> descriptions displayed in the apps for this exact reason: to let people >>>>> find out quickly and easily what something is. >>>>> >>>>> So, although I agree that our first sentences are suboptimal, it's >>>>> important to put the problem in context and remember that users do have >>>>> Wikidata descriptions now to satisfy this use case. It's not like we're >>>>> totally failing them, we could just be doing a bit better. >>>>> >>>>> Rather than piling on hacks by trying to scrape the content in the >>>>> first sentence and reorganise it (which causes information loss, and is >>>>> extremely fragile from a technological perspective), the long term >>>>> solution >>>>> is, at least to me, to invest in is getting our engaged readers to write >>>>> clear, coherent Wikidata descriptions. These can then be used across all >>>>> platforms to support that workflow. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, there may be room for some quick wins that we can put in >>>>> place while we figure out truly compelling UX for getting readers to >>>>> submit >>>>> descriptions. We can explore those quick wins in our brainstorming >>>>> session >>>>> on Monday. But we must remember that these will only be short-term, hacky >>>>> solutions to the problem, and that we need to address this problem at the >>>>> source in order to be really successful at it. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> On 6 March 2015 at 16:13, Jon Robson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Any reason this is on mobile-tech and not mobile-l (I'd love to hear >>>>>> from people like Amir on this subject)? It would be good to flag this >>>>>> problem to a wider audience and part of our problem with most mobile >>>>>> issues >>>>>> is people just are not aware of this sort of thing. Many probably haven't >>>>>> even heard of the hemingway app... >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be interesting to see how a wikidata generated first >>>>>> sentence would score with the same app. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Vibha Bamba <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Folks, >>>>>>> Kaity and I used the Hemingway app <http://www.hemingwayapp.com/> >>>>>>> to analyze the readability of our first sentence, using a few articles. >>>>>>> They all scored poorly, an ideal grade level of 10 is recommended for >>>>>>> clear >>>>>>> bold writing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This difficult problem arises from the first sentence containing one >>>>>>> or more of the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - IPA Keys >>>>>>> - Birth/ death dates >>>>>>> - Other Names/ AKA's >>>>>>> - Help/info links >>>>>>> - Alternate spellings and scripts >>>>>>> - Additional details >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Details like dates are replicated in the infobox, if it exists in >>>>>>> the article. >>>>>>> Other templates such as AKA's/IPA's are extremely useful but need to >>>>>>> be presented in a clear and structured manner. Some of this comes from >>>>>>> the Manual >>>>>>> of style >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#First_sentence>, >>>>>>> but it is abused in many cases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Its sad, because many readers come to Wikipedia to answer the 'What >>>>>>> is this/ who is this' question. Google Knowledge panel strips out all >>>>>>> brackets and presents important details as a list, under the >>>>>>> description. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have started investigating solutions for this on mobile. I would >>>>>>> encourage you to try this out on mobile web or apps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Vibha & Kaity >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Articles we used: >>>>>>> Bern <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bern> >>>>>>> Genghis Khan <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan> >>>>>>> Cephalopod <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod> >>>>>>> Mahatma Gandhi <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi> >>>>>>> Nietzsche <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche> >>>>>>> Carthage <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage> >>>>>>> Phoenicia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia> >>>>>>> Timur <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> Vibha Bamba >>>>>>> Senior Designer | WMF Design >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dan Garry >>>>> Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps >>>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Mobile-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mobile-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Mobile-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >
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