Indeed. It was over a year ago when I sold a poster for around $800 to someone in Germany. The buyer asked that I ship the item via Fedex (I usually just ship via Airmail). So I obliged by shipping it Fedex, which of course had a tracking number. Only problem was, Fedex lost the package for three weeks! I had the tracking number.... but that doesn't matter to Paypal; you have to have a tracking # that proves the package was delivered. So if the courier fucks up, the seller bites the bullet. Amazingly, the buyer then insisted that I refund his money (remember it was his courier of choice that caused the problem). I told him: not my problem; your courier lost it; sorry. He filed the complaint with paypal, and they took the $800 out of my account promptly. There was nothing I could do even though I could prove that I shipped it. You can't talk to anybody at paypal; you can't plead your case; you can't write them a letter; it's either a tracking # that shows delivered or bye bye cash! Fedex found the package 3 weeks after I shipped it, finally delivered it; and the buyer at least had the decency to drop the claim; so I ended up getting my money. I have never been more pissed off in regards to an eBay transaction.
-abe
From: JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MOPO] Paypal Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:42:28 +1000
Hi JR
The amount was only 16.99 but I was more concerned that someone else could be caught this way over a large transaction. Lets say a US seller sends a package to Europe with a value of $1000.00 but cannot provide the "online tracking" that paypal require. If the buyer decides to dispute the transaction they get their money back - no questions asked, no chance for the seller to provide any response, end of story. I'm not sure how things work in the US these days but I dont think the US postal service provide on line tracking for each and every transaction. I know that even if I fully insure the article from Australia (which I do on large transactions whether the buyer pays for it or not) that will not satisfy paypal.
The reason for my post was that I thought other sellers should be aware of this. I have had a couple of private emails from sellers who have had similar experiences. I can live with this happening once in 5 years but I would not have been happy if the amount had have been large. Hopefully it will be another 5 years before anything similar happens.
Its a jungle out there.
Regards John
JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA PO Box 92 Palm Beach Qld 4221 Australia WEBSITE: www.moviemem.com
eBay Userid: johnwr
All you need to know about Australian Posters...... http://www.moviemem.com/about.html ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] Paypal
John,
Sorry to hear that this fellow used PayPal to hurt you -- you've always been great about shipping posters all the way from down under for only $7.00 USD. I hope the refund amount wasn't too much. It's pretty ironic that PayPal allows sellers to accept payments from "international buyers" (even encourages it) but that if there is a problem with an international buyer they simply say that you ship international "at your own risk". Typical double-standard from PayPal again. I suppose if this happens to you very often, you'll be forced to charge everyone a higher shipping rate (one which does provide a tracking number). Or else possibly offer both, but if the buyer wants the $7.00 rate, they have to agree to not file a PayPal claim against you in the event it does not get to them. That's not a good solution, but then nothing seems to be in this case.
The sad fact is that PayPal always sides with the person who paid in these disputes -- the only sellers who can get away with taking PayPal and scamming the buyers are the ones who continually empty their PayPal accounts and continually close them and open new ones, staying one step ahead of those filing complaints with PayPal about them. The honest sellers get stuck with PayPal arbitrary decisions.
Perhaps it will soon be time to make charging insurance mandatory (an insured package must by definition carry some kind of tracking number) and at least if the package does not get to the buyer, you can get reimbursed for any refunds you have to give. Of course, insurance means declaring full value for customs, so it gets messy there as well when shipping international.
Nope. I got no good solutions. Probably the best is find the cheapest way of sending something with a tracking number. Here in the U.S. we can send a Priority Mail package and for 45 cents add what is called a "delivery confirmation" tag which is actually useless as a delivery confirmation, but does give the package a "tracking number" of sorts.
-- JR
----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:41 Subject: [MOPO] Paypal
Hi everyone
This is a warning to sellers who use paypal. I sold a poster to a customer in France about 3 weeks ago. He paid with paypal. I sent the poster immediately - airmail as usual. He filed a complaint a few days ago saying that he had not received the poster. No contact with me at all from either paypal or the customer. I logged on to my account and found that there was an "issue" that had to be resolved. Paypal gave me two options:
1. Provide on line tracking of the package. 2. Refund the customer.
I send all of my packages normal airmail at a basic 7.00. Most of you would know that I rarely if ever have a problem and delivery is often within a week but our postal service does not offer on line tracking on international airmail.
So I was left with no option at all but to refund the customer. I was given no opportunity to communicate with the customer or paypal.
My feeling is that he received the package and uses this as a form of scam. Paypal say that if you ship internationally, you do so at your own risk. I'm not sure what they actually mean by "internationally".
So, basically, if you send a package without on line tracking you have no comeback with paypal. If anyone disputes the transaction you have to give them a refund.
Regards John
JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA PO Box 92 Palm Beach Qld 4221 Australia WEBSITE: www.moviemem.com
eBay Userid: johnwr
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