I do agree that there is the potential for fraud now and down the line with
reproductions. These particular posters are not exact reproductions as they are
on photographic paper. However, there are very high quality reproductions out
on the market such as the ones from S2 Productions that does the line of
posters licensed by the American Film Institute. High quality reproductions
are nothing new. Portal is not a high quality reproduction. In other areas of
paper such as advertising, travel posters, etc., there are some really high
quality reproductions out there. They usually sell for more than your typically
$15-$20 poster. Some of them in the hundreds as is with the case of the S2
posters. I recently bought some Hard Day's Night reproduction lobby cards for
my younger daughter's bedroom. They were listed as reproductions and I swear
when I got them I thought they were originals. To be honest I'm still not sure
they aren't. I put them next to my own original set and they were on identical
paper and looked exactly the same. But the guy I bought them from said they
were reproductions and they were only $10.
You are correct when you say that there is always going to be someone who
thinks these repros are real just as we see the ads for the Portal prints that
have been in Grandma's attic since the movie premiered in the 30's. However,
isn't part of being a collector to educate yourself before you spend your
money. That is one of the purposes of the MoPo group, to be able to ask
questions of other collectors with more experience. When you buy something on
the internet you are taking a risk because you can't hold it in your hand first
to examine it's authenticity. That is one of the downsides of internet
purchasing but most of us take that risk and sometimes get burned.
When I was in college my walls were filled with Portal reproduction movie
posters. I never even thought about the originals, I just assumed the studios
had them or only a few survived. To be honest, I don't even know if I thought
that far on the subject. I loved my posters and friends always got a kick out
of seeing them on my dorm room walls. It wasn't until my second year of college
that I even found out you could get an original and thus the saga began. My
original poster collection is very important to me. However, I still have those
Portal reproduction posters rolled up in a tube and now and again when I run
across them I get a smile on my face as it reminds me where it all began. If
those posters hadn't existed, I might not have ever gotten into original movie
poster collecting and that would have been a definite loss in my life.
Reproducing copywritten material is against the law. Now, it would seem
that it is too overwhelming for the studio's to go after thousands of printers
that are reproducing posters, mostly in Europe, so I think these posters are
here to stay. Dealers all over the world have been reproducing lobby cards for
over 20 years. I remember the big ads in Big Reel and Movie Collector's World
for repro lobby cards. I own some of them. Now, as a longtime collector I can
tell the difference between those repros and the real deal. It may be a touchy
subject, but there are dealers right here on our group that sell reproductions.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as you divulge that
information to the buyer.
There are always going to be scams. Unfortunately it is human nature. It's
been going on for years in the art world but usually some experts come along
and uncover the frauds. I'm not sure what the solution is but I don't think
banning reproductions from the market, especially those that are clearly marked
or stated as reproductions, is the answer.
I do have to throw this out there though. I replied to Helmut's email
yesterday about those "minty whites". Last weekend I had a customer who brought
in a Bladerunner insert he had bought on Ebay to authenticate it. I knew the
minute we unrolled it that it was real. However, I knew one of the dealers that
was originally involved with the "minty whites" and bought many of them. The
minute I took them out of the tube, I knew something was "off" with them. I
laid my original Star Wars insert next to one of those "minty whites" and
immediately saw the color register difference. I never returned them but I have
never sold one of them either. This past weekend I went to pull my Bladerunner
"minty white" insert and guess what, it wasn't "minty white" anymore. Over the
years I have had it, it has begun to yellow just like my original inserts.
That was the point I made about these posters all those years ago when they
started surfacing. Now, this was a case of a definite attempt to defraud
people. Those "minty whites" were printed on card stock. My own personal
feeling is that they were printed on the original plates since the NSS info and
the GAU logo are in such sharp focus. I'm not a printer and I have heard the
story of the printer that clammed up in upstate New York, but I still think
those were printed as NSS by some insider who made a some bucks off that run.
My point is, you are never going to stop someone that is purposefully trying to
defraud.
Sue Heim
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Ball<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Now heres something this hobby REALLY needs!!
Way to go Scott!
I was basically going to say the same thing last night when Evan made his
last post.
In the long run this can only hurt our collecting field, not help it. People
who do not now any better will get burn!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Burns<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Now heres something this hobby REALLY needs!!
I have to side with Evan on this one.
Reproducing classic (and expensive) titles, while providing the ability for
those of less-affluent means to own and display these classic images, opens up
a future Pandora's box. Years later, with a bit of age on such a reproduction
and possibly encased in a frame, there is the very strong potential for fraud.
How often are novice or casual collectors taken in even today by the Portal
Publications reprints? And they are clearly marked as repros (that zip code
should be a dead giveaway!), not to mention their non-standard size. How often
have MoPo'ers warned sellers on eBay that they are selling a 1970's repro
rather than the real McCoy? Imagine what will happen if these "fine art prints"
start appearing on eBay in 10 years. Removing the NSS info from the bottom is a
good idea--or at least printing "reproduction" on the front side of the
poster... in indelible ink! :) Reducing the size of these repros from the
standard would also be wise.
I agree with Evan...with the advances in cheap, high quality digital
printing, all a scam artist would need to do to really dupe all of us is to
discover a stash of vintage PAPER. At that point the entire hobby would be in
very deep doo doo!
Sure I like to enjoy the art of posters I could never afford to buy (who
wouldn't want a 14X36 Wolf Man hanging on their wall for $29.95??)--but
producing exact copies today for such a purpose may have dire consequences for
tomorrow's collectors.
Scott
MoPo List Owner
-----Original Message-----
From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Evan Zweifel
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Now heres something this hobby REALLY needs!!
Feel free to read more into my email that was originally presented.
However, I was neither confused nor frustrated. Just hoping to start a
conversation.
Personally, I think that every TV room in world should have a large
screen set and an original movie poster on the wall. Furthermore, I think it
should be an original -- and if all they have is $15, then it should be "Pan's
Labyrinth" or "Brotherhood of War" or "The Host" (this weeks movie
recommendations).
However, I don't think that every person with photo shop, a printing
press and a high speed internet connection can legally start printing up high
quality copies of vintage posters. Which is why I asked the first question.
If you think it will be a long time before these (or similar) show up on
eBay or in your local antique mall no longer clearly marked as reproduction (or
framed up nicely so its difficult to tell), you are delusional. Even if this
seller has no intention to deceive, he cannot restrict or controll the actions
of those who buy from him.Would it be so difficult to make these a little bit
smaller or a little bit larger or remove the nss information at the bottom?
Finally, If the minty white inserts were of better quality printing, and
more appropriate paper, do you think you would be able to tell? I doubt I
could. Furthermore, I suspect that there is technology available whereby you
could reproduce a vintage 1930s 1-sheet on appropriate paper so that w/o a
known original beside it, even a seasoned collector would not be able to detect
the forgery.
Do you really want to have to get out a magnifying glass and tape measure
every time you buy a poster? Ok, so, maybe a little frustrated.
Would I deprive the non-collector of the ability to purchase an exact
copy for his TV room? Yes.
Evan
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Susan Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Jeff and all,
Well, in all fairness to Evan, he may have indeed read that they
were reproductions and I understand his frustration. There will come a time
when printers "perfect" a way to reproduce exactly. Those "minty white"
reproduction inserts are pretty darn good and, while most of us collectors can
tell the difference, there are a lot of new collectors who buy those daily
thinking they are originals. I know because they are calling me for frames. I
get many of them coming into my shop with their "rare" Bladerunner or some such
insert. They carefully take it out of the tube admonishing me to be very
careful while handling it and "it" turns out to be one of those "minty whites".
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I always let them know it is not real!.
With reproductions flooding the market you do have to be careful,
but as I said before, David Vaughn, who is
www.morbidmonster.com<http://www.morbidmonster.com/>, does a beautiful job with
his prints and he is no way trying to defraud anyone. As they say, "there is a
market for everything".
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF POTOKAR<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Now heres something this hobby REALLY needs!!
i agree, sue..and the thing that is clearly stated on the web site is
the fact that he is selling fine reproductions, and nowhere on the site is he
trying to "pass off" as legitimate, vintage posters, these items he is selling.
that other individual didnt read carefully enough.
jeff
On Jun 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Susan Heim wrote:
Hi Evan and all,
You have to remember there are more people not in the hobby than
in the hobby that still enjoy movies and love the advertising but since they
are not collecting don't want to pay original prices. As the largest frame
seller on Ebay I ship about 1500 frames a month of which at least 90% of those
are going to non collectors that are just decorating a t.v or theater room. I
actually know several dealers and collectors who have bought these exact
posters just to decorate an office. The gentleman that makes them is a very
nice guy and the quality is unbelievable. I have been meaning to order some
from him for months and have just been so busy to do it.
I have a ton of friends that love the movies but would never get
into collecting original movie posters. In the past I have given them a framed
up movie poster for a gift and it was also the most exciting gift of the party
but it was usually for something current or vintage not of great expense. There
would be no way any collector would ever mistake these prints for originals as
they are not made on typical card stock or movie poster paper. He also clearly
states they are fine art reproductions and this type of thing is common in all
types of paper collecting. If you are looking for a high quality reproduction,
these are the best I have ever seen.
Sue
www.hollywoodposterframes.com<http://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Zweifel<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:02 PM
Subject: [MOPO] Now heres something this hobby REALLY needs!!
http://www.morbidmonster.com/FineArt/index.html<http://www.morbidmonster.com/FineArt/index.html>
So, is this legal now?
will we be seeing these pop up for years on eBay pretending to be
legit!
At what point will the reproductions become indistinguishable
from the originals?
Just some musings on a Tuesday evening.
BTW: Looking for early Cary Grant 1-sheets (preferably reasonably
priced and unbacked).
Thanks,
Evan
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