Having raised the issue I suppose I should add my opinion. Heritage wants to have its cake and eat it. It is obviously now a major auction house and sees itself as competing with the big boys, but unlike them it has a different model. Movie posters are only a small part of their business but unlike Christie’s or Bonham’s who have the occasional movie poster auction which are generally in-house with internet access, Heritage has a weekly online offer. Admittedly they have the Signature auctions which are undeniably excellent, and there is no reason why, like the others, they should not charge buyers’ commission on those. The weekly auctions, however, are similar to those run by Bruce, Peter, Rick (sometimes), Filip and others (not forgetting eBay) who do not charge buyers’ commission. Rick points out that the average sale price last Sunday was $82 with bp, which is $68 without. At the new bp minimum of $19 that represents a bp of 28% per item, a not inconsiderable amount.
I agree with the suspicion that HA probably want to concentrate on higher price items, but if that is the case they should be honest about it and tell consignors that they will not consider any posters likely to sell for under $100 or whatever. Their problem is that they need quantity to keep having a weekly offer, and that means having to accept the lower value items. (I cannot be alone in noticing that both the quantity and quality have decreased over the last couple of years, though not just for them.) Nevertheless, selling those with a $19 minimum bp is still probably good business, as if you are making say only $10 per item on 200 that is still $2000 a week. I cannot buy the increased costs argument, as the increase is so large and the other online movie poster auctioneers do not seem to have had any reason to start charging buyers’commission. Maybe they could let us know how much it costs to photograph and post an item? Finally, OK – no one is forced to buy from them and if you are happy to pay an extra $19 on a $5 poster that is your affair, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t let them know what we think of their business practices. I notice that HA is keen to advertise their auctions on this site but rarely, if ever, contribute to the discussions. I would have thought that this forum gave them the perfect opportunity to justify their costs, but I am not surprised that they haven’t done so. In my dealings with them (and I have had more reasons to complain/ seek explanations form them than anyone else) I detect a certain corporate arrogance. Tommy On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Kirby McDaniel <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree with Rich entirely here. We all resent rising prices, but > Heritage is just one of millions of business experiecing rising costs. > > Kirby McDaniel > www.movieart.com > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art < > [email protected] <[email protected]>> wrote: > > I largely agree with Ira and disagree with Simon in some ways > > for the most part, I win very little under $100, and so the $19 min bp > means nothing as I'm already paying 19.5% > > if you only bid in the signature auctions, then the $19 min has no effect > as nothing sells under $100 in those, so you're only talking about Sunday > auctions and in case people don't pay attention, the average item price in > an HA sale is $70-100 on a weekly basis (last week they did just short of > $41k on 496 listings est $82 per item, with bp). > > it has at best, a small effect > > what about those sellers who drive down prices by selling massive amount > of posters for $20 and less, including silent & golden age material that > previously sold for much higher prices? Aren't they a negative worth > discussing? Don't they have a greater effect on collectors, devaluing their > collections in real time? > > Nobody forces anyone to do business with any specific entity. You can > choose who you spend money with, just like I do. (this is part of the > capiltalist/consumerist theory) > If HA has something you want this week, I seriously doubt the extra $5 has > much of a curtailing aspect to it > > Rich > > > At 08:29 AM 6/16/2016, Ira Rubenstein wrote: > > I guess I come at this from a collector view. And I have never sold > anything that I have bought before. So I am probably a little naïve about > it all. And if I was selling a lot of items, then of course I would want > a maximum of options to sell through. > > To me the relationship between auction houses and dealers is symbiotic. > They both need each other. Dealers bid on auction items all the time in > an effort to find something to resell. This helps maintain a floor on > pricing. I am sure dealers sell through auctions at times well when they > need to liquidate or manage inventory. And I don’t think this is > exclusive to Movie Posters. (Books, Coins, Stamps, Baseball cards, Art, > etc…) All areas of collections have dealers and auction houses. > > From a collectors stand point I have relationships with many dealers both > in Movie Posters and Animation art. One animation art dealer has done an > exceptional job of always calling me when he finds something he knows I > will be interested in. Many others don’t. But as a collector it is > also fun to participate in Auctions because there is always one item you > are looking for. Comes up from time to time. You lose out a few times and > then you win. And the fun is to finally win. And at a price you can > afford. Or you realize you have to save more to get what you want. OR > you see a poster you have never seen before and you decide it looks amazing > and you want to hang it on your wall. That’s the fun of discovery. > > So to me, having healthy auction houses and healthy dealers is best for > everyone. I don’t think one can survive without the other. And I don’t > think it is a win/lose situation. > > I can’t speak to people leaving the hobby or staying in it. I would > think a lot of it is age of the typical collecting consumer and what type > of films they grew up with. I am amazed at what 80’s film posters are > selling for when I know there are tens of thousands of copies of each > one. (Having worked in the film marketing world) To me, these are > the films of their youth and that’s what they want to hang on their > wall. It can also be that as people get older they look at getting rid > of things, smaller homes, wanting the money to do other things as they > live in retirement. > > I can also see for myself in the next 10 to 15 years as I downsize, I > will probably be forced to look hard at starting to sell my collection. > And figuring out the best way to do that. Who knows, it may be my > retirement career, joining all of you in the dealer world. :) > > Personally, as a collector/consumer I do like Heritage and I like Bruce at > emovieposter. The auctions are well run. Accurate descriptions. > Pictures. Billing and packing are easy. A lot done digitally. Heritage > Live on a mobile platform is very impressive tech. In my area of > work, I am always reminding people to focus on the consumer and both of > them have done that. Very well. And if you focus on the consumer > first, you will always win. (Steve Jobs lesson) > > Thank you all for your thoughts. I enjoy these type of discussions as I > learn more about the hobby and the business of posters. > > Best, > > Ira > > > > > > From: MoPo List < [email protected]> on behalf of Simon Oram < > [email protected]> > Reply-To: Simon Oram < [email protected]> > Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 10:41 AM > To: " [email protected]" < [email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges > > Yes I think Wim pointed out by what you wrote Ira..”dominant” by > definition that means, control or power over others and when that happens a > market becomes stale and unexciting, the business of collecting and dealing > did seem all more exciting a few years back. > > It also seems to me that allot of people who had taken up collecting > around the millennium mark are, dropping like flies out of the market > place, selling up and moving on from it. I can only write what I have been > told but, I have been asking. Heritage promises the world to it’s > consignors and they expect to get it, it’s a possibility that people only > trust them with it. > > Simon > *From:* Wim Jansen <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:09 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges > > > I would say as a animation collector too, I was very impressed with their > recent animation auction. They have quickly become the dominant auction > house for animation art. > > > There’s your answer, coming into the market, flooding it with volume and > eliminate the original expert dealers without needing the expertise. Then > after that you raise your percentages. > I have bought quite a few posters with Heritage and i do trust and value > Grey as a straight business guy and a very knowledgable expert, but I > always have niggles in the deal after the purchase. In those events I have > had contact with a lot of people. It seems like the entire back office > consists of temps, there’s a huge turnover of personnel. That does not feel > good. > > Wim > Op 16 jun. 2016, om 15:27 heeft Ira Rubenstein <[email protected]> het > volgende geschreven: > > I think you will see that through this move, Heritage will eliminate > people listing lower priced items. As a business if they can focus on > higher ticket items there is a higher return per item. There is a fixed > labor cost per item you list, and as a business obviously you want to > maximize your return per item. > > I am not saying the increase on a min charge is right or wrong. To me it > is just a business decision. I would say as a animation collector > too, I was very impressed with their recent animation auction. They have > quickly become the dominant auction house for animation art. > > I am curious to the last statement about how the Film Poster Business has > lost a lot because of Heritage and their patrons. I am a collector and > not a dealer. How has Heritage hurt the business? Is that a overall > Dealer perspective? > > I would also agree with the other statement that there are lots of other > venues and in a free trade society, if something gets out of whack, there > will always be something new to balance it. > > Anyway, my .02. > > Ira > From: MoPo List < [email protected]> on behalf of Simon Oram < > [email protected]> > Reply-To: " [email protected]" < [email protected]> > Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:41 AM > To: " [email protected]" < [email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges > > Agree..I think it was good to start with now, it seems the film poster > business has lost allot because of them? and their patrons. > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > *From: *Michael Greenwood > *Sent: *Thursday, 16 June 2016 12:23 > *To: * [email protected] > *Reply To: *Michael Greenwood > *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] Heritage charges > > I'm sure they justified it to their shareholders in the normal > way...growth must come at a cost...to the users. And I imagine they were > pleased with this news. The non-stop greed in this world is really intense > these days! Thankfully this hobby has other venues and less grabby sellers. > > M > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* MoPo List < [email protected]> on behalf of Tommy Barr > <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 5:21 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [MOPO] Heritage charges > > Just noticed that from this weekend Heritage Auctions is charging a > minimum buyer's commission of $19, an increase of 36%. I just wonder how > they justify that? > > Tommy > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: > https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1 > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
