Quoting MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Hi Platt, > > You brought up the subject, and it seems too general. And the > assumption seems to be that there was some goodness in those > Victorian principles. Maybe there was, do you have any > examples? Did RMP give any specific examples or detail? Is there > any evidence that killings, like those in New Jersey, didn't occur in > the Victorian period? Is there a specific question in the book > review you sited that represents your interest, or RMP's quote? > > Marsha
Hi Marsha, I'm going by Pirsig's advice. Do you find it objectionable? As far as I recall, RMP didn't give any specific examples or detail. Should he have? As for gang killings in the Victorian period, I'm sure there were some. My interest is in reducing criminal behavior as I'm sure yours is. Pirsig suggests we might learn something from the Victorians towards that end. Is that a problem? Platt > > At 10:21 AM 8/19/2007, you wrote: > >Quoting MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > > Greetings Platt, > > > > > > Which exact Victorian principles would you like to see reconsidered? > > > > > > Marsha > > > >Hi Marsha, > > > >I would have to examine the issue. A good place to start might be a book by > >Carolyn A. Conley entitled "The Unwritten Law: Criminal Justice in Victorian > >Kent" On amazon.com the book is described: > > > >"The Unwritten Law examines the values and assumptions of > >mid-Victorian England as > >revealed in the actual workings of the criminal justice system. The working > >definitions of criminality and justice were often influenced more by > >certain tacit > >assumptions than by the written law. Through a careful study of the > >ways that the > >status and circumstances of victims and suspects influenced judicial > >decisions, > >Conley provides important new insights into Victorian attitudes > >toward violence, > >women, children, community, and the all-important concept of > >respectability. She also > >addresses issues that continue to be of concern in today's society: > >How can equal > >justice be preserved when social and economic conditions and > >expectations are not > >equal? How can the rights of the accused be reconciled with those of > >victims--especially children? Can and should the courts interfere > >with the traditions > >of family and community? What standards can determine the > >criminality of a particular > >act and the justice and efficacy of punishment? This original > >analysis will hold > >special interest for students and scholars of British history, > >social history, and > >criminality and the law." > > > >I'm sure there are many other sources of information that are pertinent to > >the > >subject. Do you have any suggestions? > > > >Platt > > > > > > > At 09:21 AM 8/19/2007, you wrote: > > > >Hi All, > > > > > > > >The U.S. is still reeling from the execution style killings of three > > > >college students in Newark, NJ two weeks ago. The murders appear to be > > > >gang related. I couldn't help but the be reminded of this prescient > > > >passage from Lila, 24: > > > > > > > >"What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social codes > > > >are almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the > > > >revolutionaries hoped for, but a reversion to rule by terror, violence > > > >and > > > >gang death -- the old biological might-makes-right morality of > > > >prehistoric > > > >brigandage that primitive societies were set up to overcome." > > > > > > > >Those who cringe at the thought of a return to Victorian values may > > > >want to consider Pirsig's advice: > > > > > > > >"What the Metaphysics of Quality concludes is that the old Puritan and > > > >Victorian social codes should not be followed blindly, but should not be > > > >attacked blindly either. They should be dusted off and re-examined, > > > >fairly > > > >and impartially, to see what they were trying to accomplish and what they > > > >actually did accomplish toward building a stronger society." (Lila, 24) > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Platt ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
