-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David M Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic
Hi Ron Direct/unconceptualised experience knows nothing of subjects and objects. regards David M [Ron] Right you are Dave, but unconceptualized experience is sensual distinction. How can we have concepts about anything if it not distinct. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > > > > [Ron] >> ...the focus being on the recognition of things > before >> one can think about it. > > > Again, how do you 'know'/'recognize' "things before one can think"? > This kind of loop, where 'know' is before 'know' is a trapping of SOM > thinking I believe. > > > [Ron] >> Again my suspicion is that preintellectual recognition has s/o >> distinction and naturally leads to s/o intellection, simply on the >> merit that we sense the phenomenal world as objects in relation to >> ourselves before we even think about it. > > I disagree. I really don't think about that and I being separate. > I could if I wanted to, but my mind is accepting these cricket sounds, > they pass through me, and I'm really not trying to define a this and > that, just a continual stream of events. > > [Ron] >> I have ducked objects thrown at me before I was aware of the whats >> whys and hows of any of it. > > I duck all the time to bad, disturbing, immoral, and unvaluable > thoughts, are those thoughts not mine? > > > [Ron] > I guess what I'm saying is my personel experience has been a level of > awareness you describe > as a continual stream of events where I'm aware of things without > actually thinking about them. > there is this state of awareness then there is thinking about things. > I'm saying that even in > my awareness of continual stream of events I sense objects other than > me ie. cricket chirping. which > I allow to pass through me. I just feel that there are two differing > levels of awareness > that seem to be getting lumped together somehow in the MOQ perpective. > If you ever got > "sucker punched" or been > hit by something you were not aware of, there is this split second of > pure awareness before > the pain sets in and you begin to rationalize just what hit you and how. > if you've been hit in the > back of the head, your vision becomes jumbled and nothing visually makes > sense for a few moments. > experience tells you if this has happened before that more than likely > you're going to get hit again > and head for cover if you are unexperienced you are going to pop your > head up and look around > for what hit you, probably getting it in the face this time. With out > intellection and SOM > I feel the fist,bottle,shoe hit my face,me. And you have s/o distinction > before I can think about it. > It's just curious. I get confused when Pirsig says there is dynamic > quality of the immediate experience > and SOM nothing else, to which I ask well what the heck was before the > greeks invention of SOM? > someone list the OTHER brands of metaphysics and if it's cultural then > it should be easy > to point to OTHER cultural metaphysics should'nt it? > > Thanks SA, I'm just askin questions, any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! > FareChase. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
