Quoting Dan Glover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Hi Dan, (skip) [Platt] > >I think the naming and the patterns go together in talking about what we > >believe to be the general nature of reality. Otherwise, I guess we would > >just stare at one another. > > You miss my point. A rose is a rose. It would still smell as sweet by any > other name. It is not about names. You miss my point, too. I could not communicate without names. Life is much more than wine and roses. > >(skip) > > > > > >Platt: > > > >I agree with Pirsig's view. But nowhere does he suggest by changing the > > > >vocabulary that a glass of water becomes an illusion. "The data are the > > > >same." > > > > > > Dan: > > > "No one has ever seen substance and no one ever will." (LILA) > > > >Substance, no. A glass of water, yes. > > A glass of water is not a substance. Good. Now we're getting somewhere. A > glass of water that gives the illusion of substance. True. Substance may be an illusion. But a glass of water is not. > > > Dan comments: > > > If no one has ever seen substance then what are we seeing if not > >illusion of > > > substance? > > > >We are seeing what we name "a glass of water." > > An illusion of substance, yes. Not substance, as you have already agreed. Right. > > > > > Dan comments: > > > > > > > > > > So instead of asking of people are real or figments of imagination, > >it > > > >seems > > > > > better to ask: do we value people? The answer is yes. To think in > >terms > > > >of > > > > > value instead of substance doesn't change people yet it changes our > > > > > perception of people. > > > > > > > >Do we value people? In general, yes. But I don't value people who are > > > >dedicated to killing me or my family. So it would be dangerous to give > > > >blanket value approval to every one. > > > > > > Dan: > > > Oddly enough, I don't know of anyone who is dedicated to killing me and > >my > > > family so I guess I felt safe making that blanket generalization. When I > > > sold my home of 17 years the buyers made me put locks on the doors as > >prior > > > to that I never felt the need. What if someone stopped by and I wasn't > >home > > > and they needed to use the bathroom or the phone or something? How would > > > they get in if they found the doors locked? > > > > > > Do you really feel someone is out to kill you? Do you know who it is? > >How do > > > you protect yourself? Do you sleep with a gun under your pillow? I'm > >sorry. > > > It all sounds quite scary and quite foreign to me and I feel bad that > >anyone > > > would have live with something like that hanging over their heads. > > > >Going back to my childhood there were Germans and Japanese out to kill me. > >Then it was the North Koreans and Chinese. Then it was Russia and the Viet > >Cong. Now it is al Qaeda and Islamic fascists. > > Oh, wait... you neglected to mention those pesky Mexican immigrants (where > is that fence anyway?) and those nasty nappy-headed inner city blacks. Oh, > and don't forget those cowardly French pukes (the bastards) who wouldn't > even back us up when we went and invaded a sovereign country. And don't even > get me started on that Cuban mf'er and his stinking beard. And what about > that goofball they elected in Venezuela causing all the commotion and > calling our strong leader a devil. What balls. Send in the CIA and their > Blackwater pals and see who has the last laugh, that's what I say. > > >Thanks to strong leadership > > You mean the war criminals and cronies we have in charge of our great > nation? Wake up! > > >and the sacrifices of millions of other Americans I am still alive. > > If you consider living in fear of your life to be alive... I don't. > > >I get > >down on my knees every night and thank God for those leaders and those who > >died to preserve my life and my freedom. So yes, there were plenty of > >people out to kill me and my family over the years and some who still do. > >Sorry, but I don't value them in the least. > > We need to cultivate compassion, imo, not hatred. Someone once said to love > one another. Remember? > > I think you enjoy pushing people's buttons and so hold out hope you aren't > as mean-spirited as you seem. > > Thank you for the discussion. I have nothing else of substance to add. > > Dan If you consider 9/11 to be an illusion, we're definitely on different pages. Sorry that you so sensitive to another point of view and feel it necessary to launch a personal attack. Thanks for the discussion. Platt ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
