Marsha said: My original question (borrowed from Tittivulus) in this thread was: So why not explore the notion of a distinct 's/o experience' as a working hypothesis so you can proceed to explore the various components of such an experience (components, not parts). Wouldn't that be a better, more MOQ'ish method of inquiry?
dmb says: I don't understand. What is a "distinct s/o experience"? What sort of "components" are we talking about here and how are they different from "parts"? I suspect that Tittivulus is only mocking us. Marsha said: At this point, it seems that the answer is yes. Because in doing so it becomes clear that there are two components to the s/o experience: an Intellectual Level component and a Social Level component. It is a more MOQ'ish hypothesis because the discussion is then centered on experience (value) rather than things, and offers a broader point-of-view. dmb says: Well, radical empiricism rejects standard empiricism because it isn't empirical enough. So I'd certainly agree that a serious emphasis on experience is very MOQish but I don't understand what sort of experience or components we're talking about here. Marsha said: The purpose of the Intellectual Level is to sustain and improve the Social Level. It seems to me that in the past the SOM was an Intellectual pattern that sustained and improved the Social Level. Now the Intellectual Level is promoting an even better improvement by way of the MOQ's value-based perspective. Understood this way, there seems to be no need for a MOQ level. The MOQ, which is an intellectual pattern, is just performing its purpose of improving the Social Level. dmb says: Right, but I think Pirsig's diagnosis of history, if you will, says that in modern times the intellectual level has aligned itself with the biological. Its attack on the social level was in part a political necessity but intellect developed in a certain direction as a result. Its not just that scientific materialism tends to dismiss values and morals as "merely subjective" beliefs and such, but also that science, knowledge and technology all become focused almost exclusively on the basic biological needs. More food, more safety, more comfort, more, more, more stuff. Even growth in measured quantitatively rather than qualitatively. We're talking about the objectification and exploitation of the whole planet and all the creatures on it. I think the MOQ is saying that intellect has evolved from its historic roots and has to serve life in terms of something higher than creature comforts. And its relationship to the social level needs adjustment along these lines. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
