Dear Dwai, You articulations of eastern concepts are all very beautiful. Thank you.
>It has happened to me, as I'm sure might have happened to some of you >as well. The experience conveyed some messages, allayed some fears >and suddenly I knew someting... but then the explanation seeking >intellect kicked in and destroyed the experience. The memory of that >But it is possible to cultivate such direct experience. Taoist >practices, Yoga, Meditation all lead to this direct cognition -- >beyond words, beyond interpretation. The trick I think is to "Not >do" (a very interesting theme I find repeating across Taoism (Wu >Wei), Vedanta (Nishkama Karma), Mesoamerican shamanism (Not doing)). >But this Not Doing needs some re-programming of the intellectual >portion of the cognitive faculties...thus the training. I'm not trying to offend or make fun of your "practices" of Tao and Yoga and unfortunately so far haven't done any Tao practice and I don't know what DQ or enlightenment means to you or to be honest to me either. But seriously most times..when I consume 2 shots of good old Jack Daniels my left brain stops working, the ego is dropped completely, no intellectual hijacking, no sense of time and space, the ahaa feeling..that you knew something....and believe me..I see the world more clearly then and I guess there is the "Not do" being programmed in my brain. It's active but yet not active. The key for me is to be in the "twilight" zone though...not more..not less...neither there nor here..:). I thought Phaedrus with his "peyote" experience wanted to convey something similar..What do you all think ? > the group about their personal practices vis-a-vis MoQ (or whatever > else one might choose to refer to it as). And what I intended to > find out from that query is whether this "Greater Reality" can be > known by merely intellectual means or does it take a combination of > energy-work, meditation and intellectual analysis." Also, I can't connect to the "searching for a greater reality" that people here are talking about. For me the entire cosmos and everything within it, past, present and future are all within me and vice-versa too[whatever is me is also part of the cosmos].and that's the only reality for me...I've tried some meditation and yoga but I kind of follow more easily when J Krishnamurthy says that "Living our life is itself a meditation". Isn't Living itself a reality ? what according to you is a greater reality..if at all it can be pointed to at ? Why is the search required ? and if at all this it exists then what is the goal ? enlightenment ? cheers, -Sharath On Jan 9, 2008 9:55 PM, Dwaipayan Lahiri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings Ron, > > > On Jan 9, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Ron Kulp wrote: > > > Dwai, I noticed your statement awhile back and wanted to address it > > But I first wanted to follow out a particular line of thinking I > > Was pursuing. So Happens it ends where your post begins. > > > > I agree with your statements, so much so it is a relief to have > > another > > understand. > > You stated: > > " If you remember, this discussion was triggered by my initial > > query to > > > > the group about their personal practices vis-a-vis MoQ (or whatever > > else one might choose to refer to it as). And what I intended to > > find out from that query is whether this "Greater Reality" can be > > known by merely intellectual means or does it take a combination of > > energy-work, meditation and intellectual analysis." > > > > Ron: > > I asked this very same question in the " Where was Quality before > > Pirsig?" > > Thread. It was chalked up to DQ. End of subject. But I sense as you > > Imply, that through energy work, meditation, and intellectual analysis > > Performed in an oriented awareness, a greater reality may be known. > > If I may, Id like to pose the same question to you. > > I asked if Pre-intellectual experience was considered a state of mind > > Arrived at via intellectual patterns. > > What I gather by the response from the others is that intellectual > > patterns are intellectual > > Patterns top of the heap to venture beyond is absurd. > > > > Pre-intellectual is active at the remedial experience, the biological. > > But is the mind of a pre-human what we are aspiring to? > > To combine all in an active inquiry, a mental awareness > > Of intent, proposes a wisdom above mere intellectual processes. > > Quite certainly above pre-human experience. > > I am not certain I like the term "Quality" as being representative of > much. I'll rather go with Consciousness. > But Tao and Brahman is beyond description and so everything is bound > to fall short. > > Since Tao/Brahman/DQ is beyond syntax and semantics, it can only be > experienced. Not the interpretation of this experience, but direct > experience only. Once the interpretation/explanation by the > "Intellect" (Left brain interpreter module) starts, the experience > doesn't remain. > > It has happened to me, as I'm sure might have happened to some of you > as well. The experience conveyed some messages, allayed some fears > and suddenly I knew someting... but then the explanation seeking > intellect kicked in and destroyed the experience. The memory of that > experience is also tarnished by the judgments that were formed. It > did not remain what it was -- now it is a phantasm in my mind only, > slices of memory playing back when I think of it. > > But it is possible to cultivate such direct experience. Taoist > practices, Yoga, Meditation all lead to this direct cognition -- > beyond words, beyond interpretation. The trick I think is to "Not > do" (a very interesting theme I find repeating across Taoism (Wu > Wei), Vedanta (Nishkama Karma), Mesoamerican shamanism (Not doing)). > But this Not Doing needs some re-programming of the intellectual > portion of the cognitive faculties...thus the training. > > Physical practice to help refocus the attention to feeling, sensation > (we have become very dumb in this aspect). > Breath helps to rediscover the primal energy (Chi/Prana) and augments > sensation (energetic aspect of things....emotions, situations, etc) > Meditation helps detach the witness from the experiencer and thought- > stream/mind-stream. > > It is questionable whether a Qualitative judgment can be made about > the primacy of the Intellect in this artificial system of Quality > (which is also the figment of someone's intellect after all)... > > The intellect is just the functionality of the interpreter module in > our brain -- it will cook up any story to maintain the logicality of > the rules that have been programmed into it (social conditioning). > > > I hope it was a reasonable response. > > Regards, > > Dwai > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
