Dwai & Sharath,
Two excellent posts!!!
Marsha
At 12:51 AM 1/10/2008, you wrote:
>Dear Dwai,
>You articulations of eastern concepts are all very beautiful. Thank you.
>
> >It has happened to me, as I'm sure might have happened to some of you
> >as well. The experience conveyed some messages, allayed some fears
> >and suddenly I knew someting... but then the explanation seeking
> >intellect kicked in and destroyed the experience. The memory of that
>
> >But it is possible to cultivate such direct experience. Taoist
> >practices, Yoga, Meditation all lead to this direct cognition --
> >beyond words, beyond interpretation. The trick I think is to "Not
> >do" (a very interesting theme I find repeating across Taoism (Wu
> >Wei), Vedanta (Nishkama Karma), Mesoamerican shamanism (Not doing)).
> >But this Not Doing needs some re-programming of the intellectual
> >portion of the cognitive faculties...thus the training.
>
>I'm not trying to offend or make fun of your "practices" of Tao and Yoga and
>unfortunately so far haven't done any Tao practice and I don't know what DQ
>or enlightenment means to you or to be honest to me either. But seriously
>most times..when I consume 2 shots of good old Jack Daniels my left brain
>stops working, the ego is dropped completely, no intellectual hijacking, no
>sense of time and space, the ahaa feeling..that you knew something....and
>believe me..I see the world more clearly then and I guess there is the "Not
>do" being programmed in my brain. It's active but yet not active. The key
>for me is to be in the "twilight" zone though...not more..not less...neither
>there nor here..:).
>I thought Phaedrus with his "peyote" experience wanted to convey something
>similar..What do you all think ?
>
> > the group about their personal practices vis-a-vis MoQ (or whatever
> > else one might choose to refer to it as). And what I intended to
> > find out from that query is whether this "Greater Reality" can be
> > known by merely intellectual means or does it take a combination of
> > energy-work, meditation and intellectual analysis."
>
>Also, I can't connect to the "searching for a greater reality" that people
>here are talking about. For me the entire cosmos and everything within it,
>past, present and future are all within me and vice-versa too[whatever is me
>is also part of the cosmos].and that's the only reality for me...I've tried
>some meditation and yoga but I kind of follow more easily when J
>Krishnamurthy says that "Living our life is itself a meditation". Isn't
>Living itself a reality ? what according to you is a greater reality..if at
>all it can be pointed to at ? Why is the search required ? and if at all
>this it exists then what is the goal ? enlightenment ?
>
>cheers,
>-Sharath
>
>
>On Jan 9, 2008 9:55 PM, Dwaipayan Lahiri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Greetings Ron,
> >
> >
> > On Jan 9, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Ron Kulp wrote:
> >
> > > Dwai, I noticed your statement awhile back and wanted to address it
> > > But I first wanted to follow out a particular line of thinking I
> > > Was pursuing. So Happens it ends where your post begins.
> > >
> > > I agree with your statements, so much so it is a relief to have
> > > another
> > > understand.
> > > You stated:
> > > " If you remember, this discussion was triggered by my initial
> > > query to
> > >
> > > the group about their personal practices vis-a-vis MoQ (or whatever
> > > else one might choose to refer to it as). And what I intended to
> > > find out from that query is whether this "Greater Reality" can be
> > > known by merely intellectual means or does it take a combination of
> > > energy-work, meditation and intellectual analysis."
> > >
> > > Ron:
> > > I asked this very same question in the " Where was Quality before
> > > Pirsig?"
> > > Thread. It was chalked up to DQ. End of subject. But I sense as you
> > > Imply, that through energy work, meditation, and intellectual analysis
> > > Performed in an oriented awareness, a greater reality may be known.
> > > If I may, Id like to pose the same question to you.
> > > I asked if Pre-intellectual experience was considered a state of mind
> > > Arrived at via intellectual patterns.
> > > What I gather by the response from the others is that intellectual
> > > patterns are intellectual
> > > Patterns top of the heap to venture beyond is absurd.
> > >
> > > Pre-intellectual is active at the remedial experience, the biological.
> > > But is the mind of a pre-human what we are aspiring to?
> > > To combine all in an active inquiry, a mental awareness
> > > Of intent, proposes a wisdom above mere intellectual processes.
> > > Quite certainly above pre-human experience.
> >
> > I am not certain I like the term "Quality" as being representative of
> > much. I'll rather go with Consciousness.
> > But Tao and Brahman is beyond description and so everything is bound
> > to fall short.
> >
> > Since Tao/Brahman/DQ is beyond syntax and semantics, it can only be
> > experienced. Not the interpretation of this experience, but direct
> > experience only. Once the interpretation/explanation by the
> > "Intellect" (Left brain interpreter module) starts, the experience
> > doesn't remain.
> >
> > It has happened to me, as I'm sure might have happened to some of you
> > as well. The experience conveyed some messages, allayed some fears
> > and suddenly I knew someting... but then the explanation seeking
> > intellect kicked in and destroyed the experience. The memory of that
> > experience is also tarnished by the judgments that were formed. It
> > did not remain what it was -- now it is a phantasm in my mind only,
> > slices of memory playing back when I think of it.
> >
> > But it is possible to cultivate such direct experience. Taoist
> > practices, Yoga, Meditation all lead to this direct cognition --
> > beyond words, beyond interpretation. The trick I think is to "Not
> > do" (a very interesting theme I find repeating across Taoism (Wu
> > Wei), Vedanta (Nishkama Karma), Mesoamerican shamanism (Not doing)).
> > But this Not Doing needs some re-programming of the intellectual
> > portion of the cognitive faculties...thus the training.
> >
> > Physical practice to help refocus the attention to feeling, sensation
> > (we have become very dumb in this aspect).
> > Breath helps to rediscover the primal energy (Chi/Prana) and augments
> > sensation (energetic aspect of things....emotions, situations, etc)
> > Meditation helps detach the witness from the experiencer and thought-
> > stream/mind-stream.
> >
> > It is questionable whether a Qualitative judgment can be made about
> > the primacy of the Intellect in this artificial system of Quality
> > (which is also the figment of someone's intellect after all)...
> >
> > The intellect is just the functionality of the interpreter module in
> > our brain -- it will cook up any story to maintain the logicality of
> > the rules that have been programmed into it (social conditioning).
> >
> >
> > I hope it was a reasonable response.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dwai
> >
> >
*************
DEFINITION of Marsha, I, me, self, & etc.: Ever-changing
collection of overlapping, interrelated, inorganic, biological,
social and intellectual, static patterns of value.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
