Greetings Ron,
On Jan 9, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Ron Kulp wrote: > Dwai, I noticed your statement awhile back and wanted to address it > But I first wanted to follow out a particular line of thinking I > Was pursuing. So Happens it ends where your post begins. > > I agree with your statements, so much so it is a relief to have > another > understand. > You stated: > " If you remember, this discussion was triggered by my initial > query to > > the group about their personal practices vis-a-vis MoQ (or whatever > else one might choose to refer to it as). And what I intended to > find out from that query is whether this "Greater Reality" can be > known by merely intellectual means or does it take a combination of > energy-work, meditation and intellectual analysis." > > Ron: > I asked this very same question in the " Where was Quality before > Pirsig?" > Thread. It was chalked up to DQ. End of subject. But I sense as you > Imply, that through energy work, meditation, and intellectual analysis > Performed in an oriented awareness, a greater reality may be known. > If I may, Id like to pose the same question to you. > I asked if Pre-intellectual experience was considered a state of mind > Arrived at via intellectual patterns. > What I gather by the response from the others is that intellectual > patterns are intellectual > Patterns top of the heap to venture beyond is absurd. > > Pre-intellectual is active at the remedial experience, the biological. > But is the mind of a pre-human what we are aspiring to? > To combine all in an active inquiry, a mental awareness > Of intent, proposes a wisdom above mere intellectual processes. > Quite certainly above pre-human experience. I am not certain I like the term "Quality" as being representative of much. I'll rather go with Consciousness. But Tao and Brahman is beyond description and so everything is bound to fall short. Since Tao/Brahman/DQ is beyond syntax and semantics, it can only be experienced. Not the interpretation of this experience, but direct experience only. Once the interpretation/explanation by the "Intellect" (Left brain interpreter module) starts, the experience doesn't remain. It has happened to me, as I'm sure might have happened to some of you as well. The experience conveyed some messages, allayed some fears and suddenly I knew someting... but then the explanation seeking intellect kicked in and destroyed the experience. The memory of that experience is also tarnished by the judgments that were formed. It did not remain what it was -- now it is a phantasm in my mind only, slices of memory playing back when I think of it. But it is possible to cultivate such direct experience. Taoist practices, Yoga, Meditation all lead to this direct cognition -- beyond words, beyond interpretation. The trick I think is to "Not do" (a very interesting theme I find repeating across Taoism (Wu Wei), Vedanta (Nishkama Karma), Mesoamerican shamanism (Not doing)). But this Not Doing needs some re-programming of the intellectual portion of the cognitive faculties...thus the training. Physical practice to help refocus the attention to feeling, sensation (we have become very dumb in this aspect). Breath helps to rediscover the primal energy (Chi/Prana) and augments sensation (energetic aspect of things....emotions, situations, etc) Meditation helps detach the witness from the experiencer and thought- stream/mind-stream. It is questionable whether a Qualitative judgment can be made about the primacy of the Intellect in this artificial system of Quality (which is also the figment of someone's intellect after all)... The intellect is just the functionality of the interpreter module in our brain -- it will cook up any story to maintain the logicality of the rules that have been programmed into it (social conditioning). I hope it was a reasonable response. Regards, Dwai Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
