Dwai, Ron, Moqtalk On 14 Jan. Ron cited from Dwai's exchange with yours sincerely:
First. I regret my neglect of the highly interesting exchange with Dwai, the big posts from DMB keeps me busy and besides I have a project come summer that must be attended to. This discussion does not create much peace of mind and/or inspiration yet its has its strange attraction ... and value hopefully. Let me start with Dwai's comment (Jan.12) to this: Bo earlier: > > Well it sort of follows from the said assertion that mind is nothing in > > itself but part of the mind/matter AGGREGATE - that goes for all > > intellect's dichotomies, you can't have one without the other, but > > intellect as SOM (before it became a static level) has succeeded in > > making us believe that there are two separate realms that interact in > > some mysterious way. Dwai: > If the mind/matter aggregate is the mind, then what is matter? Bo: I actually said that the mind/matter aggregate is MOQ's intellectual level - not mind. Thus matter - as substance -is part of intellect's aggregate too Bo earlier: > > Then only self-consciousness remains as intellect's innermost > > citadel; the God's-eye view of reality, and self-consciousness IS > > intellect's definition of itself (as SOM) But there is the MOQ > > overview and in it intellect has become a mere static level and > > hasn't got any consciousness (this concept is part of the S/O > > metaphysics) the levels' have only got static value and intellect's > > is the S/O disdinction - in this case that of a self detached from > > the world it lives in. Dwai: > I see. I think we are approaching this topic in a similar manner, > albeit the vector is different that's all. I agree that the Intellect > is a static level, since it depends on the set of rules it needs to > make it's reality. Intellect is artificial. Bo: Good.The intellectual level is static - if that is "artificial" then all static levels are artificial - and perhaps it can be said that way. If matter (as substance) is examined deeply enough (as in Quantum Physics) it dissolves. Life also reaches a lower plane where the living and dead merges. If the social is pursued deep enough it merges with biology. Intellect also ends up in the social realm. All levels have their roots in the former level, yet have taken off "on a purpose of their own" and created a reality of their own. These are all MO tenets. Dwai: > If that is the case, then it raises the question, what is that is > "conscious"? What is that has this artificial intellect? Bo: Good question. But as in the "awakening from sleep animals" example there must be a conscious self at that level too - if that idea is pursued! But as I tried to convey, self-consciousness is part of intellect's S/O matrix too. It (intellect) has made us believe that there must be an entity inside ourselves that monitors the screens. > > The rest of our exchange will arrive soon. Still a promise ;-) > Dwai: > I appreciate the chance to interact with, and see that there are some > who are approaching this subject in a manner akin to the philosophers > that Pirsig alluded to, as opposed to the philosophological system. > Ron: > Dwai, your presence, If I may speak for my self, on this forum is most > appreciated, I am very interested in your exchange with Bo, Akshay and > Myself have been discussing similar issues. I am very interested to > see Where this goes. Thank you I agree whole-heartedly with Ron See you both Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
