Hallo, David...

glad you touched that subject.

cheers, friend,
fernando.


> Hi Ham
>
> An interesting exchange, I think we have managed to understand our
> differences
> now.
>
> To some extent I favour Pirsig over Hegel (undoubtedly the greatest ever
> metaphysician) for democratic reasons. Understanding Hegel is much much
> tougher. Almost an impossible effort. Hegel has his value, in fact,precisely
> when his
> conceptual framework seems to reveal patterns in experience and history
> you cannot see without them. But for payoff against effort I'd recommend
> reading
> Pirsig to anyone who is not a fully paid up and addicted philosophy junky.
> And once again what I have read of your thesis it is an impressive
> achievement
> in terms, as Hesse would say, the 'glass bead game', but I doubt that it
> will
> change our world.
>
> Thanks for the discussion I enjoyed it.
> David M
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ham Priday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Hume's Post-it to Ham
>
>
>> Hi David --
>>
>>> Here's how I see it. Pirsig does do metaphysics, it's called
>>> the MOQ. But unlike earlier metaphysics he tries to keep it
>>> to a minimum. Why?  because if you can make sense of
>>> experience by going beyond it the least possible then you
>>> are most likely to have gone least wrong.
>>
>> The way I size up your rationale, it's a good thing to make sense of
>> reality
>> as long as we don't stray too far from experience.  In other words (to
>> paraphrase your author), some things are better than others, until they
>> get
>> "too good".  If the scientific method were based on the premise that a
>> minimum of understanding is better than the maximum, do you suppose we
>> would
>> have ever have eradicated polio, invented computer technology, landed on
>> the
>> moon, or cracked the atom?  In the search for truth about reality, is
>> clinging to the illusion of experience "safer" or more efficacious than
>> going all out for a "breakthrough"?
>>
>>> So keeping close to experience he says lets postulate
>>> two ontological concepts: DQ and SQ. Can (using just
>>> these and the idea of levels of SQ) we make good sense
>>> of experience? The answer I'd suggest is yes. A vast
>>> improvement on the mess and problems of SOM
>>> philosophy and metaphysics.  Us MOQers accept
>>> metaphysics, we call it the MOQ, but we keep it to a
>>> minimum and find that this is good. You seem to think
>>> that unless you start creating a great host of pointless
>>> concepts it is not real metaphysics. I disagree and hope
>>> you can see this point.
>>
>> I understand your point, but do not agree with it.  A lesser truth is
>> never
>> better than the "whole truth".  And while the whole truth of reality is
>> beyond man's experience, the philosopher works on the presumption that it
>> is
>> possible to conceptualize intuitively what we cannot deduce
>> experientially.
>> This is the aim of metaphysics, but development of metaphysical theories
>> is
>> impeded by the tenacious grip of objective reality on man's perspective.
>> Only logic and intuitive reasoning can free us from this existential
>> delusion.
>>
>> MOQers accept metaphysics in name only--as the title of an existentialist
>> philosophy that is anything but metaphysical.  The author himself despised
>> metaphysics and the definitions it requires.  "Keeping it to a minimum" by
>> euphemistic references in a fictionalized novel is not my idea of a
>> metaphysical thesis.
>>
>> The fact that you regard my concepts as "pointless" only indicates that
>> you
>> fail to see the point.  I happen to hold the same opinion concerning
>> Pirsig's four levels of Quality.  To me, trying to figure out which level
>> Intellect belongs to is like asking how many angels can dance on the head
>> of
>> a pin.  As a firm believer in Occam's razor, I can assure you that every
>> concept I've posited is fundamental to the overall philosophy of Essence.
>> But, of course, if you reject the thesis as a whole, the postulates will
>> seem meaningless.  Which is precisely why the objectivist mindset is
>> closed
>> to metaphysical reasoning.
>>
>> Sorry, David, but "playing it safe" in philosophy is a form of
>> equivocation.
>> More temerity is needed if we are to make significant inroads in
>> philosophical thought.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Ham
>>
>>
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