Ian said to Steve: I've not read Sam Harris so far, but he's on my list, and I've been following reviews / debates - I was initially put off a first impression of his extreme tone, but I suspect that may have been misleading. (Of the current batch I read Dennett's "Spell", but not Dawkins' "Delusion" either.) In the middle of a debate about Dennett elsewhere.
dmb says: I'm a big fan of Sam Harris and I think his tone is perfect. I just watched his address to the atheists on YouTube. Dennett was there and asked a very interesting question about mysticism. (It'll be called "AA1 07" and comes in two parts.) I'd say that mysticism was the main topic and there were a few atheists that didn't like it one bit. This talk was the one I wanted to hear. It answers a question I'd had ever since I discovered the guy. Does his "atheism" rule out mysticism of the non-supernatural variety? According to Harris, does it rule out philosophical mysticism? Turns out the answer is emphatically "no"! He even mentions, as one of the psychological benefits of meditative practice, the loss of the subjective self. I'm telling you, this guy is a MOQer and he is spot on. Check it out. He also spends some time explaining why he doesn't like "atheist" as a label for people like himself. His main complaint is that people get a free pass when it comes to religious beliefs. He's only defending intellectual honesty. He's only saying that religion shouldn't be immune to criticism just because it's religion. He's only saying that it's wrong to let people off the hook if those people believe in bullshit. And I couldn't agree more. That's not extreme. That's just sane, fair and decent. Ian said: Interestingly the agnostic / atheist distinction becomes moot, once you get to the point that the ontological question - the existence of god or otherwise - ceases to be interesting ... The real (ie pragmatic, rather than metaphysical) issue becomes what people do with professed religious faith. dmb says: Yes, "what people do with professed religious faith" is probably Sam's central concern. What people do with their faith is prevent stem cell research, put creationism in the science classroom, behead infidels, bomb abortion clinics, shoot doctors, fly airliners into skyscrappers, blow themselves up in a crowd and teach their children a bunch of bullshit. The pragmatic consequences of religious faith is a disaster on a scale beyond measure. Sam Harris thinks we should imagine what victory for the "atheists" looks like. Like John Lennon, he wants us to imagine a world without that kind of bullshit, with no religion. I think that world is much more beautiful than this one. God bless, dmb _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
