Thanks for that DMB - I have learned my lesson about my Harris first impression - clearly the guy talks sense. I may be some time.
Be good to move a few more MoQ'ers on from this obsession with GOF-atheism, and onto the pragmatic issue of the damage of misplaced faith - idolatry (in anything) Ian PS forget "god" (it's just a decoy, a distraction), just imagine .... On Jan 17, 2008 9:54 PM, david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ian said to Steve: > I've not read Sam Harris so far, but he's on my list, and I've been following > reviews / debates - I was initially put off a first impression of his extreme > tone, but I suspect that may have been misleading. (Of the current batch I > read Dennett's "Spell", but not Dawkins' "Delusion" either.) In the middle of > a debate about Dennett elsewhere. > > dmb says: > I'm a big fan of Sam Harris and I think his tone is perfect. I just watched > his address to the atheists on YouTube. Dennett was there and asked a very > interesting question about mysticism. (It'll be called "AA1 07" and comes in > two parts.) I'd say that mysticism was the main topic and there were a few > atheists that didn't like it one bit. This talk was the one I wanted to hear. > It answers a question I'd had ever since I discovered the guy. Does his > "atheism" rule out mysticism of the non-supernatural variety? According to > Harris, does it rule out philosophical mysticism? Turns out the answer is > emphatically "no"! He even mentions, as one of the psychological benefits of > meditative practice, the loss of the subjective self. I'm telling you, this > guy is a MOQer and he is spot on. Check it out. > > He also spends some time explaining why he doesn't like "atheist" as a label > for people like himself. His main complaint is that people get a free pass > when it comes to religious beliefs. He's only defending intellectual honesty. > He's only saying that religion shouldn't be immune to criticism just because > it's religion. He's only saying that it's wrong to let people off the hook if > those people believe in bullshit. And I couldn't agree more. That's not > extreme. That's just sane, fair and decent. > > Ian said: > Interestingly the agnostic / atheist distinction becomes moot, once you get > to the point that the ontological question - the existence of god or > otherwise - ceases to be interesting ... The real (ie pragmatic, rather than > metaphysical) issue becomes what people do with professed religious faith. > > dmb says: > Yes, "what people do with professed religious faith" is probably Sam's > central concern. What people do with their faith is prevent stem cell > research, put creationism in the science classroom, behead infidels, bomb > abortion clinics, shoot doctors, fly airliners into skyscrappers, blow > themselves up in a crowd and teach their children a bunch of bullshit. The > pragmatic consequences of religious faith is a disaster on a scale beyond > measure. Sam Harris thinks we should imagine what victory for the "atheists" > looks like. Like John Lennon, he wants us to imagine a world without that > kind of bullshit, with no religion. I think that world is much more beautiful > than this one. > > God bless, > dmb > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star > power. > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
