Hi SA,
Very interesting. I need to read such texts loosely to be able to come to an understanding. I read, then later discover Aha!. I am also very interested in what is happening in the 'Science and the MOQ' thread. Marsha At 03:42 PM 3/10/2008, you wrote: >Marsha: > > In LILA, RMP states that "What holds a person > > together is his patterns of likes and dislikes." I >think that would > > hold for Krimel's dog too. I think Buddhism states >desire is > > the root to suffering. I never used the word evil >(I don't much > > like the word.), and I'm not a Buddhist, but I do >believe that desire > > with attachment is the root of suffering. For some >things I seem > > willing to pay that price. > >SA: Marsha, I find what you wrote here, helpful. The >quote by RMP is as samsara is, and as nirvana is. >Samsara is nirvana, and once this is understood the >suffering in samsara can be experienced as bliss. >This is the same analogy as eternity experienced now, >on this earth, not in some future time or future >place. The latter is a yearning, a desire for >something that can't be now, thus, a need that can't >be fulfilled now - a spiritual need. Yet, this kind >of lacking or need is ignorant due to what is needed >is right here, right now, so, why the need? Yet, this >is base-line spiritual needing. Where one starts from >a thinking as if they have zero quality. When one >understands they do have quality (spiritual >need/sacred need, etc...) and desire to keep this >integrity, well this is a good desire. One that is at >base-line, zero thinking quality, devoid of absoltuely >everything, that would be an empty life distinquished >from Spiritual or Quality Emptiness/Nothingness. This >would be an emptiness with degenerative notions of >ignorant spiritual or quality voidness or baseline >spiritual needing (as I refer to it above). There is >a difference between degenerative emptiness and >generative emptiness as Huineng explains in the >Platform Sutra: > >http://zen.thetao.info/read/platform.htm > > "Learned Audience, when you hear me talk about >the Void, do not at once fall into the idea of >vacuity, (because this involves the heresy of the >doctrine of annihilation) . It is of the utmost >importance that we should not fall into this idea, >because when a man sits quietly and keeps his mind >blank he will abide in a state of 'Voidness of >Indifference'. >Learned Audience, the illimitable Void of the universe >is capable of holding myriads of things of various >shape and form, such as the sun, the moon, stars, >mountains, rivers, men, dharmas pertaining to goodness >or badness, deva planes, hells, great oceans, and all >the mountains of the Mahameru. >Space takes in all of these, and so does the voidness >of our nature. We say that the Essence of Mind is >great because it embraces all things, since all things >are within our nature. When we see the goodness or >the badness of other people we are not attracted by >it, nor repelled by it, nor attached to it; so that >our attitude of mind is as void as space. In this >way, we say our mind is great. Therefore we call it >'Maha'. >Learned Audience, what the ignorant merely talk about, >wise men put into actual practice with their mind. >There is also a class of foolish people who sit >quietly and try to keep their mind blank. >They refrain from thinking of anything and call >themselves 'great'. >On account of their heretical view we can hardly talk >to them. >Learned Audience, you should know that the mind is >very great in capacity, since it pervades the whole >Dharmadhatu (the sphere of the Law, i.e. , the >Universe) . When we use it, we can know something of >everything, and when we use it to its full capacity we >shall know all. All in one and one in all." > >SA continues: Thus, to explain this right off the bat >is important to avoid any coming declarations that >Void or Empty are nihlistic and such. I'm discussing, >as I like to call quietness, the emptiness that >includes everything, as Dwai and you mention as >Eternity. As for good desiring, here is a quote from >wikipedia, for as I mentioned to Krimel, but not in so >many words, it would be absurd to think that one would >be born and desire not to live. To desire to sit and >do nothing, without any empathy or compassion is a >degenerative desire. To me, practicing good living >involves peaceful orientations and becomes an effort >in 'common sense', which I understand what's common to >one or many may not be common to the other one or >many. The 'common sense' I'm referring to is as the >quality analogy, which states you already know what >quality is. Here's the quote from wikipedia as >follows: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanha > > "The Buddhist solution to the problem of ta?h? >(craving, wanting) is the third of the four noble >truths, the cessation (nirodha) of suffering. The >cessation of suffering comes from the quenching >(nibbuta) of ta?h?, which is not the destruction of >ta?h? as much as the natural cessation of it that >follows its true and real satisfaction. The problem is >not that we desire, but rather that we desire >unsatisfactory (dukkha) things, namely sensual >pleasures, existence and non-existence. When we have >Right Effort, when we desire that which yields >satisfaction, then ta?h? is not the obstacle to >enlightenment but the vehicle for its realization." > >SA continues: This last sentence, especially, also >points to how samsara is nirvana, which is the same >notion as heaven is on earth, etc... Also, as I >pointed out in many words, Marsha, your notion of a >desire linked with attachment is the degenerative >desire and is a good summation of such events. > > > >SA > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
